Wiring Two of Three fluorescent Lights?

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If I understand the OP correctly, the J box is the existing fixture he's connecting to.
In other words, he's removing the existing edison base fixture from the ceiling J box, and chaining the fluorescent fixtures off the J box.
That's the simplest way to do it, tho, perhaps at a bit more wire than the absolute minimum. He could run multiple wires out of the J box to smaller chains if the locations work out. As long as there aren't too many wires coming out of the J box.

Just being complete ;-)
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Chris Lewis,

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On Jul 23, 3:45 pm, snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

Gotcha.
The house was built in '75. People say that's considered "modern." Althought he last mechanic said my 1989 Acura was a newer car. Somebody, please... define modern.

I'll check the cable, as there is no spool.

I will probably need at least one junction box since I am going to add at least two more fixtures than what is already there. Unless, the figtures themselves have a wayto daisy chain them and still remain code compliant.
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That's the point. You _can_ daisy chain them using the fixtures themselves as the J boxes (assuming I've not gotten confused, and you're _not_ using standard premade fluorescent fixtures). As long as the wiring inside the boxes is 90C, and you use box clamps to protect the cable[s] as it enters the fixture boxes.
Yes, it _is_ code compliant.
Most recessed lighting fixtures and baseboard heaters don't need J boxes either.
Back in the olden days, 90C wire was somewhat exotic, and you needed to use a J box to interconnect short lengths of (then) pricy 90C wire to the then-standard 60C or 75C building wire, and run the 90C leads into the fixture.
These days, at least in Canada, virtually all regular romex in stores is 90C, so you never need to do that. In the US, I suspect most regular romex sold is also 90C.
Presuming you're going to need to buy some wire, just double check it's 90C. If you're going to try to connect any of the fixtures directly to the existing cables, check the sheath. If the sheath doesn't say, assume it's not 90C.
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On Jul 24, 10:51 am, snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

Gotcha. I look at what we have here at work and I think I understand.
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00881vc7.jpg close up of cutout.
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00882yd0.jpg Now I understand, thats why I'm here to figure things out. When I ripped out the old under cabinet fixtures in the kitchen, the wire nuts were twisties with electrical tape - inside the fixtures themselves. That is where I learned that. How popular was 90C in 1974/75?
Not as popular as the Bee Gees I'm guessing.
I replaced electrical outlets too, and I noticed electrical tape around the screws there as well. Did dear 'ol Dad get a banjo playing bumpkin to wire the house? I have seen old pictures of the hosue being built and I thought the sloppy hairstyled and boots were simply the style at that time.
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I don't think it was that common - remember some jurisdictions were still approving aluminum.

That's sometimes done as a hack job to be able to get power from the outlet during construction before you fasten the outlets into the box.
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On Jul 25, 2:51 pm, snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

I bought one of the fixtures and it is all starting to come together. I knocked the hole out where the wire is going to feed in.
http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00885ki5.jpg Can you see these?
http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00886largeqw9.jpg

This is where the 30+ year old 44" fixtures already are. Thay have the black wire inside the fictures. Cold it be 90C? I can't read anythign ont he insulation.
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Edward wrote:

Make sure you get a cable clamp for that knockout hole.
here's a reference for cable clamp: http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/elect/wkbench/wiringclamps.html

Is this a single tube fixture? The capped blue wire is intended for a second tube if the ballast is in a two-tube fixture

If it doesn't say, it probably isn't 90C. also note the lack of a cable clamp as I mentioned before.
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I'm on the road tomorrow, I'll pick a few up.

Yes. One lamp fixture.

Shit. What do I do since its not 90C? Is the fact that it is wired into the old fixture meaningless?
I'm now using xnews! No more google.
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Use a J box (see my other followup). Will be easy in this case.

Yes. While you don't have to go through your house upgrading your fixture connects (they're grandfathered), the rule is that any work you do must be brought into current code.
Lots of people wouldn't bother, and the likelyhood of this one rearing up to kill you is extremely low. But the J-box is easy, might as well do it right, one less thing to obsess about in the middle of the night ;-)
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:00:46 -0000, snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

Makes sense. I would rather use a junction box, screwed in there. For obvious reasons I want to be code compliant. So when the time comes to sell the house, and an anal inspector comes through ripping electrical tape off my wire nuts - he sees that I am (was?) an amateur, but a higher class of amateur.
and hopefully these stories of electronic balasts failing are

Logical. I played golf with one of my dad's friends - he runs _a_ county forensics lab and had a few arson cases. When they can't figure out what caused a fire? Thay say electrical. So 9/10 times when the newspaper says a set of crossed wires caused a fire - they don't know.

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Edward wrote:

For fluorescent fixtures in the US, 90C wire is only required if it is within 3" of the balast (410.33)(unless the fixture is marked otherwise). Just maintain a 3" separation.
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That means that you could splice in 90C wire inside the fixture if you had to go "past" the ballast for some reason - eg: end-to-end chaining.
I don't think our code has the 3" rule.
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Yup.
I can't tell for sure, but that's cloth-wrap (not plastic) cable isn't it? Assume it's 60C then. Anal code compliance would suggest you need to get a J box up there and splice in a bit of modern 90C wire to go to the fixture. Try to keep it so that the J box is at least partially visible when looking straight up into the fixture cavity.
44"? Are you sure you don't mean 48"?
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:50:30 -0000, snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

The outside seems like rubber, but the, last time I cut into that pre Bell bottom shit there was the paper like stuff in there. Paper in an electric wire? I start fires using paper. I don't use those yuppie logs, I use the real wooden ones. I'm glad I wasn't around in the 1970's.
I also like how there's no NM cable connector on any of the fixtures.
Isn't that a code violation?

Yes, 48". I looked at Lowes, and I don't see anyhting relating to 90C, would it be called something else?
I'm ready to rock down here...
http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00890mediumqc2.jpg
Except for the 90C wire.
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Edward wrote:

Yup. Need strain relief and protection from sharp edge of knockout.

If you are talking about Romex, it should be marked NM-B. The "B" indicates it has 90C rated wire insulation.
(Individual wires would be THHN.)

-- bud--
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wrote:

That's the pits. I've been living in this house for decades.
Anyway, I think I'm ready to rock! two cable connectors on that jbox NM-B cable....
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Much better than Google and free.
Go here and download Agent 3.3 Build 846
http://www.forteinc.com/agent/download-all.php
Enter aioe.org for your server. No username or password.
One of the icons is "Open Newsgroup Directory"
This will allow you to search for the groups you are interested in.
You can hit "Begin Search" with nothing in the search field to get a list of every group.
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I have seen wire nuts fail due to operator error.
As the OP is an amateur, would he be better off with a chocolate block style splice? Are they available and legal in the US?
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I wrap the wire nut in electrical tape. So hopefully they won't fail.
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Splices (eg: split bolt) are available, but generally not for this size of conductor. (Eg: 14ga and 12ga). I don't think I've seen something that fits my picture of a "chocoloate block". Except of course things like grounding and neutral bus blocks inside panels.
There are two kinds of wirenuts. One is the twist on. The other has a brass insert and a set screw. Unscrew the insert from the cap, insert the wires, tighten the set screw, clip ends if necessary and screw the cap back onto the insert.
Latter are more expensive, but some electricians like them for larger wire that's difficult to twist. Eg: stove/dryer wire. I can never find a consistent source of them, so I stick with the regular twist-on.

Electrical tape will _not_ prevent a defective joint from failing. If the connection is bad/loose enough to heat up, no amount of electrical tape will stop it from burning out. In fact, it may accelerate the burnout.
Electrical tape on wire nuts is really only useful if (a) you've not stripped the wire properly, and bare wire is exposed outside of the nut and (b) you're worried about the drywaller's mud knives running into it and/or shorting out against other wires or the box.
I don't do it, and Knight disrecommends it - "The inspectors treat it as a sign of poor workmanship and will pull the tape off expecting to find bad connections".
The only time I've seen it done is by a drywall crew as they were doing a house I was helping rewire. _My_ connections didn't have exposed conductors - it was mostly force of habit on their part, tho some of the other people doing bits of wiring on this job goofed up a bit (especially the contractor).
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