wiring question Knob and Tube

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I just bought a new (old) house and I have a couple of questions. Our underqualified although state licensed (Wisconsin) inspector missed some extremely obvious Knob and Tube wiring which turns out to be half the house so I'm rewiring most of the house. The first question is:
Do I have to remove all of the dead knob and tube wiring?
The second question is:
I'm running armoured cable to the attic to replace the Knob and Tube and the cable is running in an open cavity between two bedrooms. Do I have to open the wall and secure this every four feet?
Thanks, Gavin
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Disconnecting old wiring is fine. It can be left in place. You don't need to secure wiring fished inside of walls

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I would remove ALL the exposed knob and tube, even though its disconnected. Makes selling your home easier in the future/
if you can see it remove it!
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wrote:

I agree. That stuff is scary for most of us.
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I would be impressed, and like it.

Just shows how old the house is. I like that.
BTW is an inspector unqualified just because he doesn't note K&T. AIUI, it's still legal. Does he fill out a detailed report, or is he only supposed to note violatons?
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House inspectors are not electrical inspectors. They usually note anything that needs attention or can cost you money to repair or upgrade. The good ones will recognize violations too
wrote:

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On Mon, 5 Mar 2007 15:48:39 -0500, "RBM" <rbm2(remove

Thanks.
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On 5 Mar 2007 06:28:13 -0800, mission_modern_and snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

imho:
Before you do anything, I would suggest you get a qualified electrician. Although you want to do the work yourself, you can pay him/her to show up now and then to help guide you.
As for your questions, I would remove the wire so no confusion later. With the securing question, I believe the NEC addresses this by allowing it be unsecured in areas where inaccessible with a remodel.
Check just in case. ;)
later,
tom @ www.Consolidated-Loans.info
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mission_modern_and snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

Are you sure you want to replace it? Really. K&T is a very good wiring system. You would not put any new in, but assuming what is there has the capacity for what you need, why replace it?
Are you assuming that the inspector is bad because he failed to note K&T? To the best of my knowledge (limited as it is) K&T is legal as grandfathered in. There are times you do need to change it out, but I don't believe it is universally illegal.
--
Joseph Meehan

Dia \'s Muire duit
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Agreed. Seems most of the impetus for replacement comes from anal insurance companies and their threat of policy cancellation.
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cavedweller wrote:

Wellllll... most K&T is not rated to have insulation blown around it, so that pretty much mandates replacement in exterior wall cavities, in my book.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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BUT only if he's going to insulate OR someone already did. The OP didn't mention insulation.
--
Steve Barker




"Nate Nagel" < snipped-for-privacy@roosters.net> wrote in message
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I can't imagine not wanting good insulation, esp. with fuel costs the way they are today. I'll be doing my upstairs as soon as it warms up enough to rewire. The second floor of my house, which has uninsulated frame walls, is a good 5 degrees colder (62 vs. 67 degrees) than the downstairs, which is masonry - and it's only in the mid-30s here.
In my case it's not an issue that there's K&T in the walls; the wiring is old cloth covered non-metallic. the issue is that the wiring is ungrounded and I want to split the floor into two different circuits and add the now-required bathroom circuit, and just don't want to mess around fishing wire through cellulose.
nate

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Nate Nagel wrote:

What about old 60 degree Romex that was commonly burried in insulation and carried both conductors together. Both conductors generated heat, and were adjacent if insulation failed. Maybe Romex should be replaced.
IMHO insurance restrictions on K&T are largely the latest redlining scheme.

http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?idq90 is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations that had insulation added around them. At the time of the report, adding insulation was permitted some places, not in others.
-- bud--
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Bud-- wrote: <SNIP>

Bookmarked !!!
What a great find!
I snipped this from it as part of the history and origin:
"Mr. Sargent had no knowledge of fire loss data pertaining to this amendment, and suggested that the code change may have been a preemptive move based on the original design of knob-and-tube wiring. In this view, knob-and-tube wiring was designed to function in free air , and thus encasement in an insulating material represents a practice contrary to the original design."
HaHa A "pre-emptive move" based on little more than hot air.
Jim
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House inspectors know if they kill a deal, they'll never get a call from a broker again. When you're buying a house, it's difficult to call in an inspector from out of town (who won't be influenced by the potential loss of business), because it will cost you big. It's inevitable for an old house to need improvements and upgrades. I'm really angry at the last inspector who came for my current home; he missed a bunch of things, but I ultimately blame myself for overlooking them, since I was involved in the inspection. When you want a house you tend to rationalize past items in order to keep the deal going. I have that K&T in the attic, and the problem I have with it is mine doesn't have a ground, and it's difficult to work with when upgrading ceiling lights or adding fans. In addition, in my house the wires are laying on the studs so if I have to go up into the crawl space (rarely) unless I want to have to avoid live wires, I got to cut off the breakers. As far as asking an electrician to come out and give you advice, I called one and he wanted $90 an hour portal to portal; so if he came out and spent an hour, it would cost me nearly $300 because I live in the country. Also the textbook suggestion would be to maybe check with your county building department to see if a permit is required for the work you are planning, and if your jurisdiction permits the homewoner to perform electrical work themselves. You do not necessarily have to identify yourself when you call, just to ask a rhetorical question. That way you can have your project inspected, and you can be sure they will re-access your property and bump up your taxes. By the nature of your question, and the comments you made regarding how you plan to upgrade your wiring, you are obviously wanting to do a reasonably good job and not jeopardise your safety or your home's value. In my experience the guys working the electrical aisle at the homecenters are retired electricians, and offer good advice and direction, or tell you who to ask if they don't know the answer themselves hope this helps
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In my area, home inspectors are generally furnished by the selling realtor, after an accepted offer. Their job is to find as many "defects" as they can, not to kill the sale, but so the buyer can re-negotiate a lower price. In most cases, you should never add outlets to existing K&T. When it was installed, it did a limited number of outlets and works fine for light loads, especially lamps and fans and such, that don't use a ground. If you need new outlets, run new circuits
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many home inspectors are complete jerks, and have no idea what they are doing.
example me selling home with sump pump. Inspector, You MUST have GFCI protection!! Completely unsafe!!!
I add GFCI buyer backs out........
Second home inspector TERRIBLE you should never GFCI a sump pump!!!
I had a bunch of examples...........
home inspectors are a buyers best friend, and a sellers worst enemy.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I thought the inspector that came and looked at my place was pretty good, and fair. He found lots of little greebly stuff, but I made it clear to the seller that I wasn't going to screw him on that, I only wanted two things checked out (a backdrafting water heater flue and a weeping pipe, both of which he fixed for not much $$$.)
The only thing he MISSED which was not his fault was the bootlegged grounds on the upstairs receptacles, but he would have had to physically remove a receptacle to find it.
nate
--
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Fantastic find Bud, You're a truth detector!!
I'm keeping a copy for future debates

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