I bought an IR motion detection device. I want to use it to turn a lamp on in my attic.
The IR device has place for blue, brown and yellow/green wires. The lamp has place for blue and brown only.
I've cut the lamp power wire in half (it has blue and brown) and want to connect the IR box in there
W --------->Blue>------- IR Box --------->Blue>------- L A A L --------->Brown>------ Brown --------->Brown------- M L Blue P yellow/green
So how do I connect the wires?
Those colors don't sound right to me. Are you in the US? What about the instructions with the IR device and the lamp?
Buy something thats made to do this. Several products are out there that are very similar that are made for closets. No way would I ever think of doing this with motion detection A simple switch near the access is more then enough.
Either way I still think its a bad idea what your trying to do.
Some devices like that have a hot-in, a hot-out, and a neutral. The neutral is for the power they use. One device I hooked up said to connect that wire to the ground; presumably it was sufficiently low current as to not matter and running it to a real neutral was impractical.
However I haven't any idea what your wires represent. If you don't have the instructions, you should contact the manufacturer. (duh)
On 05/01/05 12:23 pm Joseph Meehan tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:
That's the UK and Australian color scheme (maybe other countries use the same -- Black for Hot never did make any sense to me; neither did Red for Ground, as some European countries used a few decades back):
Green&Yellow is Ground Blue is Neutral Brown is "Live"/"Hot"
So my *guess* is that the IR Device's Brown would connect to the Brown from the wall and the IR Device's Blue would connect to the Brown going to the lamp, leaving the Green/Yellow "floating" but insulated. If the lamp fitting has no ground connection now, presumably it doesn't need one.
Perce
That was what I suspected. I just want to clear it up.
This is european system. GREEN with YELLOW stripes Ground BLUE Neutral BROWN or BLACK Live
I solved it by taking part an allready wired similar system.
Blue and Brown go to the IR box. From the IR box blue goes to the lamp's blue and yellow/green (ground here) goes to lamp's brown.
The result is that when somebody walks past the detector the lamp turns on.
I've got another question:
I am placing a number of IR devices around the house. When any of the IR boxes detect movement all the lamps current connected to any of the IR boxes should turn on.
Which should I do:
W --------->Blue>------- IR Box 1 Blue -------->Blue>------- L Blue A A L --------->Brown>------ Brown ----- M Brown L | P yellow/green ------>Brown>----
W --------->Blue>------- IR Box 2 Blue -------->Blue>------- L Blue A A L --------->Brown>------ Brown ----- M Brown L | P yellow/green ------>Brown>----
Do I connect the brown wire at lamp end or do I connect the blues also?
Les,
Let's see if I understand what you said. In the switch box, there are two cables: one cable enters with a black, white, ground and one exiting to the receptacle with a red, black, white and ground wire. In the outlet box, the red and white connects to the receptical. The black wire connects to a cable leaving the box which then goes to the lights. The white wire of the light cable connects to the second screw on the receptical. Right so far?
If the above is correct, then connect the power (black wire) coming into the switch box to 1) the red wire and 2) a black pigtail. Connect the black pigtail to a single pole switch. Connect the black wire going to the outlet box to the other terminal. Connect the two whites together.
Philip
Les,
My answer above assumes that the power is coming into the switch first from a different cable then the one attached to the recepacle. In this case, you would have two cable coming into the switch box. Since you mention that there were more then one white in the switch box, I guessed you had the power starting at the swich box. If this is not the case, then the above doesn't apply.
Philip
Les,
I might be dense but I am confused. First is the red and black wire connected to the switch coming from the same cable? If yes disregard my messages. With the switch in the off position, which wire is hot? To give a better answer I need to know:
1) how many cables come into the switch box and where do thet go? 2) how many cables come into the outlet box and where do they go?Sometimes power is brought into the receptal box first then sent the switch box using the black wire or a 3 wire/ground cable. The power is then sent back to the outlet using the red wire. Power might also be sent to other places using a pigtail (connected to the black wire) in the switch box. This might be what you have. This makes the cabling easier at times for the builder but annoying for the home owner to figure out. You can still do what you want but I don't want to confuse you without more information.
One more time.
Based on your info this is my best guess:
1) Power enters the outlet box. The black wire (b/w/g) connected to the other black wire (b/w/r/g) brings power to the switch. (if this is true then 1) the black wire in the switch is live when the switch is off 2) the black wire and red wire connect to the switch are in the same cable 3) disconnecting the two black wires in the outlet box causes the switch to go dead along with other things. If this is not true then the rest of this message is wrong)2) The other black wire (the one in the b/w/g cable) entering the switchbox is feeding other circuits and the black wire should be live with the switch off.
3) The red wire returns the switched power to the outlet/receptacle. The black wire on the outlet feed your lights.To set up what you want assuming you verified what I described. First diagram the circuit and verify my instruction before proceeding. I am not a electrican but have a similar circuit in my house. Use my advice at your own risk. if you do not understand the circuit call a pro.
1) Remove the wire nut from the two black wires in the outlet box. Check to see if they are live with the switch in the off postion. If yes proceed.2) With the switch off verify that the red and black wires on the receptacle are dead. If yes proceed.
3) Turn off the power and then verify the power is off on the black and red wires in the outlet box. If yes proceed.4) Remove the red and black wires from the receptable and join them together.
5) Connect a pig tail to the two black wire and replace wire nut. Connect pigtail to receptacle.6) Turn power on and verify everything works as desire.
The orginal poster stated the tabs were still intact. So I assumed that both outlets are controlled by the switch. It would be nice if all electricians did it with one switch and the other not.
BTY Tom makes excellent point. You really need to map the circuit. I tried based on what you posted but I am not in your house with a testor.
Les,
My answer above assumes that the power is coming into the switch first from a different cable then the one attached to the recepacle. In this case, you would have two cable coming into the switch box. Since you mention that there were more then one white in the switch box, I guessed you had the power starting at the swich box. If this is not the
case, then the above doesn't apply.
Philip
Another reply tells you how to rewire the outlet, but here's a reponse to the question why it was done this way:
Several rooms in our house have duplex receptacles where the top outlet of each pair is switched (in some cases, the ceiling lights are controlled by the same switch). We like this arrangement: it means we can have table lamps and the like all operated from the single switch.
Perce
On 09/08/05 03:48 pm Gina and Les tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:
My guess is that one of the blacks goes to the switched outlet box and is always hot. It could power something downstream from the outlet or be the source from a breaker. The second black goes to another load if the first black comes from a breaker or is from a breaker if the first black feeds another load.
The red wire of course is switched and goes to the switched outlet.
The red wire is the switched hot from the switch box. The black wire that is common on the receptacle with the red goes to the overhead lights. The other blacks are always hot and are either supplied from a breaker or feed other loads. One of them goes to the switch box, the other goes to a load/breaker. The converse of the ones in the switch box.
Forget about colors, they mean little beyond all the white ones "may" be neutrals. And no one on the internet can see what you have to work with.
Wires may have several connections between the switch and the wall outlet, and you have to know what is connected to what before you know.
eg, do the wires go to the potlights from the switch and then to the outlet ?
does the power feed enter at the switch or from one of the "pots".
It should not be hard to figure out, but you will have to open the pot wiring boxes to start tracing things through. All you need is a Volt/ohmmeter and some time.
But this is going to a bit harder than just replacing an outlet as wire connections are going to have to be changed and reconnected. And depending on the way it was done, you "might" have to string a new wire or two.
It may be time to call an electrician.
Or just run an extension cord from the next closest outlet that is not switched.
AMUN
Hopefully I'm not repeating what someone else said, but from my quick scan of the thread I don't think so. My take on the situation: the b/w/g cable is incoming power, the b/w/r/g cable is outgoing power, where black is always hot and red is switched hot.
My take: the incoming b/w/r/g cable is from the switch and provides incoming power, both constant and switched. The outgoing cable whose black is connected to the incoming red (via the outlet) is outbound switched power, leading to the other switched loads (overhead lights, I think you said). The outgoing cable whose black is tied to the incoming black directly is outgoing unswitched power, which serves the other receptacle you mentioned.
If this is correct, and the goal is to make the receptacle completely unswitched, then feed the receptacle from the pair of blacks currently just tied together, and just tie together the black and red wires currently feeding the receptacle.
If you wish to make only half of the receptacle switched, and half unswitched, then break the tab between the receptacles on the hot side (not the neutral side), feed one side with the incoming red and the other with the incoming black, and make sure the outgoing blacks are fed appropriately.
Cheers, Wayne
From a distance and not having seen the actual wires: it sound like the switch controls only one of two duplex receptacle outlets. IOW top receptacle is always powered and bottom receptacle is switched. Bottom receptacle is what you plug the table top lamp into so that same switch controls overhead lights and floor lamp. Sounds like what your electricians did is a preferred installation.
Black wire would be always hot. Red wire would be hot only when empowered by the switch. Whites are neutral - always connected together.
Meanwhile no details about safety ground wire?
G> There are two cables in the switchbox. One cable is b/w/g the
Like I said, it was posted only from limited facts provided. If those jumpers remain between red and black wire, then the receptacle is not switched separately. Up front, you must learn with box contains a direct connection to breaker box circuit breaker. Switch could be between circuit breaker and lights, OR switch could be tapped off the lights it controls - where hot wire connects to same light box that is controlled by switch.
If not using a meter to learn what does and does not exist, then you are making the problem difficult. Meters are a tool as common as a screw driver - sold in Home Depot, Lowes, Radio Shack, and even Sears.
Your concern is not about fixing the problem. Trying now to fix the problem only makes the problem complex. Your immediate objective is to draw a map of those wire connections. This is why the meter is so useful.
For example, you know one box has a b/w/g wire and a r/b/w/g wire. Good. Now where do those wires go. What other box has the other end of that b/w/g wire and what other box has the r/b/w/g wire. When you have a map, only then are you ready to solve the problem. This is the process of breaking the problem down into parts - then solving each part - one at a time.
You remove > Grounds are present and connected. Both receptacles are switched.
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