wires to capacitor on YORK AC unit are burned and melted

[Chris Lewis]

According to Tony Berlin :

Not true. A single adjacent shorted out winding will cause the current draw to go way up, but the motor will usually still turn fine (more or less).

I think Turtle may be drawing attention away from the right thing to check, but he's quite right insofar as motors can easily draw more than they should. Ie: shorted windings, stiff bearings or seals, etc.

The fact that the condenser wiring is melting is very suggestive (especially after wiring and condensor replacement), not of a winding or condensor problem (a shorted condensor could do this), but that of the start switch.

_Normally_, the condenser is only connected to the start winding for a few seconds at most while the motor is getting up to speed. Once the motor nears operating speed, the condensor and start winding are switched off. The condensor wiring shouldn't be in-circuit long enough to get hot even if it is drawing too much current.

Having the condensor wiring overheat is suggestive of one of two things:

1) the start switch is malfunctioning and holding the start winding in-circuit too long, and (possibly in addition), there's a short in the start winding and it's pulling too much current when it is in-circuit. 2) The motor is taking WAY too much time to get up to speed (bad bearings, semi-seized seals etc), and hence the condensor circuit is remaining in-circuit MUCH too long.

There are other possibilities (ie: the condensor capacitive value is _grossly_ wrong, but unless you have gremlins running around replacing start condensers without you knowing it ;-), unlikely)

Motor windings rarely fail and are quite expensive to "repair", so I'd concentrate elsewhere first.

I'd look into the start switch and making sure it's not fused (spot welded) closed. Often just "unsticking it" and polishing it up with a nail file or similar does the trick.

Also check to see whether there's too much rotation resistance. Maybe it needs new seals. Or a new compressor. Ugh.

[Rex B]

|> I'm not a HVAC technician, but I am an electrical engineer with 15 years |of |> experience testing contactors and relays. The photos show that the |terminals |> are corrode; chances are, the contacts of the contactor are as well. |Fungus, |> corrosion, and normal usage can cause an increase of resistance on |> electrical contacts. An increase of resistance will cause a voltage drop |to |> appear across the contacts of the contactor thus making the contacts |> dissipate more power (heat). From what I see, the wires are burned near |the |> relay. I have seen this condition many times in relays that were under |> test. The contacts get hot enough to melt the insulation on the wires near |> the relay but not hot enough to melt the relay. Replace the relay and the |> wires and that should solve your problem. |>

|> Turtle is a smart cookie. |>

|>

| |

Rex in Fort Worth

[Chris Lewis]

According to TURTLE :

Turtle, I see _significant_ corrosion on the terminal screw (on at least) the lower of the two hot spots. See first picture - has the best view.

Not only is the screw and metal conductor corroded to crap, the black plastic (or bakelite) on the terminal is clearly baked and is going to start disintegrating.

You can winch new wire down as much as you want, but with that much corrosion on the terminal, it's never going to stay "fixed".

The pictures aren't good enough to tell if the upper terminal connection is as badly damaged.

That thing appears to be a relay. I think it needs to be replaced or refurbished somehow. If it's the start relay (see my other posting), the contacts may also be sticking (or permanently stuck) and be the original cause of the whole mess.

I can't believe a serviceman would simply replace that wiring harness without at least commenting about the condition of the relay. Sheesh!

[CBhvac]

Thats a Model number: H2DA042S06 style A. No Q in it.

As information, last date on record for that unit was 11-30-93. It was never registered under warranty. Gotta love it. As far as the pics go, you have a very simple problem to fix. As long as the compressor is not overamping once the job is complete, you are ok. The contactor is bad, and the terminals are loose....even when they have replaced the wire. All the 220VAC leads need to be as tight as possible, otherwise they will overheat and you get that problem.

Chances are, that the leads to the compressor at the R and S terminals are loose as well, and will further add to the overheating. The correct run capacitor for that unit is a 45-5-440, and you better have that on there as well. if they have not replaced the cap, do so. The correct contactor for that unit is a single pole, 30 amp, 24v coil, with shunt. common unit, and the correct part number is 02425835700, Source One. It is in phase out mode, and the price will be about $26 for the correct one. The capacitor is a little higher, for the correct York part...they run according to the listings for about $29.00. sure, you can get them for less, but as a York dealer, I only use Source One parts, as I dont have to make any modifications to anything.

[Stormin Mormon]

Didn't think you knew.

[Stormin Mormon]

Ah, gee. Now we got to install flush valves on condensors, as well as toilets? You sure you know something about AC? You sound more like a plumber who got talked into "Oh, yes! Can you look at my AC".

[CBhvac]

Chris..if you had a clue, and you dont, (lets be honest here, and stop trying to fool folks about your background and knowledge) then you would know what a condenser flush is. Some also call it a foam out. Others call it a cleaning. Either way, the idea is to loosen the accumulated dust, grime and oils from deep in the fins, flush them out, and restore proper coil to air contact. IF the coil is clogged, as many are, then the fan amps go down, the fan speeds up, the heat pressures go up, the compressor amps go up, and if the compressor does not shut down on thermal, it will overamp and possibly create in some isolated circumstances the same problem that the OP has.

[CBhvac]

In other words, you are again proving that you are a liar, and a hack..

I dont mince words. You on the other hand, try to swindle, and cheat and fool people into saying things that will actually help you, and make you look better. Get a grip man...you are nothing but a 50 something locksmith, living in a tin can, in NY, that has an old boss that gave up on you.

[Stormin Mormon]

Couple things. First, Turtle is a smart cookie, and from what I can read of his posts, an excellent repairman.

I did look at a couple of the pictures. Since the wire from the cap goes to a terminal block (and two other things) it makes me wonder if this is a load carrying wire, not just from the comp to the cap. The wire you pointed to with the arrow does appear smaller than the other wires.

Wonder if a dab of Noalox would be a good idea for these press on terminals? Cut down on corrosion.

[Stormin Mormon]

Hey, Tony, go back to driving a garbage truck. You might do less damage.

[Stormin Mormon]

Did you see how rusty that compressor capacitor (condensor, for Brits?) is?

[go fish]

Keith, after viewing your pictures and reading the various posts, as a tech I'd take the following steps to remedy your situation:

1) replace the one pole contactor with another 1 pole contactor, 40 amp rating 2) cut the wiring back to clean, unburnt copper and crimp on eyelet connectors that attach to the contactor with screw lugs 3) replace the capacitors with either single capacitors rated for their respective loads (condenser fan motor and compressor) or as CB mentions, the correct dual cap that originally came with that unit. 4) ensure that the wiring lugs at the compressor terminals are electrically tight, not corroded, and NOT of the male spade variety, as Turtle mentioned. Install split bolts if you have to. 5) like the moron tony berlin suggested, flush your condenser. what he really meant was wash the condenser coils to ensure cleanliness, free from dirt and debris. 6) ensure every high voltage electrical connection was tight, starting from the circuit breaker panel, to the disconnect, to the connections inside the condenser. 7) finally, depending on a lot of factors, i may install a hard start kit. you see mr berlin, i'd be looking at my startup and RLA AFTER i'd completed ALL of the above steps.

On a side note CB, your star will shine alot brighter when you cease with your unprovoked attacks on SM. I give the guy credit for at least asking questions, its just unfortunate he had to ask them of that brain dead egotistical tony berlin.

[CBhvac]

Hey Chris, go back to stealing from drunk women that are locked out....you might actually get laid.

[Keith Reding]

The AC originally had a single capacitor but the first repair guy said it was crap and replaced it with the two separate units.

Keith

electrically

in

[CBhvac]

Nope..it wasnt crap..it was the RIGHT part, and it was a GE BTW, one of the better ones. What hes done now, is part of your problem.

How does he have them wired? In series, or parallel?

Damn...to think there are techs out there that do that kind of work, and get away with it.

I normally dont do this, but if you want the right one, I will verify pricing in the morning, and if you need one, get you a wiring diagram, and tell you how to fix THAT problem. I am willing to bet that my York supply has it for less than the dealers net lists it for....since we only use that for part numbers anyway.

bing...there

[CBhvac]

Snip

Read his later post...thats part of his issue for almost sure.

electrically

GF..you know me as well as any...and while I agree with you to a point and respect your thoughts on the matter, the more I read of that morons postings....well...you already know.. Personally, I take his giving advice as an attack on a trade, that by Keiths uneducated tech proves, has enough idiots working in it that continue to pass themselves off as fully trained, and licenced persons. It bugs me in a way I cant describe.

in

[Keith Reding]

Sounds like a plan. My neighbor used to do AC repairs so he can certainly help me install the correct cap, especially if I have a wiring diagram.

Keith

wrote

[Stormin Mormon]

Actually, I know all the answers to the questions I asked -- I didn't think Tony did. With Tony Berlin's bad attitude, I put him in the killfile right next to CBH.

[Stormin Mormon]

In order to assist Tony (whose messages no longer appear on my screen) I am providing the answers to the test. Enjoy!

[CBhvac]

Thats hilarious, since you reply to me everywhere else, including your little Yhoo group...:) And Chris, I dont have a bad attitude...I hate that you are giving answers to things you have no clue about....and have given wrong, and at times, dangerous advice. You are an amatuer, playing pro...and that, is just wrong.