ya i agree. the whole country runs on wire nuts without tape. if they failed regularly we would be using something else. the wire nut provides a good electrical connection. the tape provides peace of mind.
there is a simple test. after you put the wire nut on, try and pull it off. give it a good solid pull. if it comes off, it wasnt on good enough. if it stays on, its fine.
randy
He's never had one fail. That's because he uses insurance... tape.
Also makes up for that occasional over-stripped wire one might miss.
I was taught to hold the wire nut and try to pull out each wire individually to see if it is loose. I caught myself with a loose one just yesterday.
John
on, try and
comes off, it wasnt
out each wire
with a loose one
THAT is the right advice! It's also a good idea to pay attention that the wire won't move around at all, let alone not pull out. A singly wire in the center of a twist may not pull out, but can easily be felt to be loose if it didn't twist, or if there is no pressure on it.
Pop
All of this is interesting to me. It makes one wonder just how good wire nuts are. YES, I use them. But where old boxes, or small boxes are in place, I still prefer to solder and tape. Soldered connections take up less room, and still can come apart nicely when necessary. I have had occasion to take some of my 30-year old soldered connections apart, and they are just like new. I have also had occasion to take some wire nut connections apart, and sometimes they can be quite hard to remove. Again, just my opinion. I don't do wiring for pay, --Phil
I used to joke that I had to promise the university I wouldn't even touch an electrical extension cord before they'd let me graduate as a structural engineer (BS and MS; and PE). Now I kinda regret that joke. Now I own an older home that I want to modernize with 200+ amp service, recessed dimmable lighting, and all the fancy stuff that I see in the new homes that cost less than mine did but are 15 miles outside of town (Houston) I find this residential electrical wiring and planning very fascinating. It's more interesting than my job of designing pressure vessels to the ASME Code. Wonder if it's too late to change jobs?
wonder just how good
or small boxes
Soldered connections
necessary.
soldered
also had
sometimes they
pay, --Phil
Computer Engin
Youngstown, Ohio 44555
wouldn't even touch an
a structural
joke. Now I own an
recessed dimmable
homes that cost less
find this
fascinating. It's more
the ASME Code.
LOL, I'd keep your day job, but hey,for extra money ...
Wire nuts, properly used, are actually pretty reliable in the overall, or there would be a world of code and insurance rehashing going on. It's when an inexperienced person gets hold of them and figures it's just "twisting is all" or someone gets very lazy, tired, or cheap. A correctly fashioned connection will hold together AND not come apart on its own, even if the wire nut falls off! The wire nut is really only intended to insure the integrity of the connection against movement, age, and expansion/contraction of the materials over time. In essence, they "guarantee" that the wires wil always be tightly held against each other.
I remember one guy who INSISTED that he'd been taught the right way to apply a wire nut was to NOT twist one wire, but to twist the other wire/s around one wire. Then you twisted them counterclockwise, so that when the nut went on, it tried to untwist the wires, forcing the nut to bite into the wiring all that much harder. He was dead serious, and after awhile, I came to believe that he had indeed been taught SOMETHING similar to that, but whatever it was, I never figured out!
As for soldering, I did that in our home in Chgo. I lucked out and got to hit the dumpsters at a furniture factory that was being torn down. It wasn't until after I got home I discovered it was ALL stranded wire!! I ended up using it, and redid my whole house with it . I soldered as much as possible, then used wirenuts and taped. For fixtures, I just twisted the strands, tinned them, and shaped and applied them to the screws. It was actually a lot easier than working with solid wire, expecially the soldering experience. I have to disagree with easy to get apart though. I always had to fight that danged tape when I had to go back a few years later to do some upgrading and tapped into some of those lines. YUK! I can imagine what it would have been like to get that tape off the splices themselves! O yueah, inspection went off without a hitch, too.
Pop
You are right about the tape. On the other hand, with the good tape being used these days, IF you can find the beginning of the the end of it, getting it off is not be too tough, even with a good/proper wrap. My point was really that untwisting a soldered splice is surprisingly easy even though the soldered connection is a very good one. Of course, I don't undo joints often, but there have been times. Also, undoing soldered STRANDED wire is not what I'm talking about. Rather, I'm talking about solid #14 through #10. For fixtures where the pigtail is stranded, I use wire nuts these days; and box room allows this in those cases. By the way, I should probably take out my sig below. My work and formal educational situation has almost nothing to do with electrician work, and I do not claim to be anything but self taught when it comes to wiring. On the other hand, electrical engineering and the knowledge it brings certainly DOES bring ideas to help understand many code requirements. For example, number of wires in a box concerns heating and mechanical considerations (probably). --Phil
back a
some of
been
the good tape
the the end of
good/proper wrap.
surprisingly
one. Of course,
talking about.
fixtures where
box room
My work and
electrician
when it comes
knowledge it brings
requirements.
mechanical
Computer Engin
Ohio 44555
Yeah, didn't mean to sound like I wanted to step on toes; the "story" et al was just sort of swapping old sea stories. I did understand, and agree, that soldered solid wire's not bad to work with. Sort of an aside, now I'm disabled and can 't do that stuff anymore, NOW I've learned to fold a small tab on the end of the tape in case I have to get it off at anytime in the future! Ain't it wonderful how great hindsight is?
Cheers,
Pop
PS - you sig: Don't see a real problem - it's about a department you're in, not YOU, so ... Format could be cleaned up a little though. I ass-u-me you're staff? It IS however, unadvisable to have your email address in the clear like that. You would be better off, unless you're already buried in spam, to change it to somethning like PcMunro AT cc DOT yse DOT edu. Still easy to read, and most spiders won't key in on it. Mailto links are very specifically bad ideas on ANY newsgroup!
These newsgroups are crawled by many nasty spiders that just love to strip out email addresses to sell in spam lists. You should also develop a nicname to go by and not use your real name. Based on the info you've put in your post, I would likely be able to tell you your address, who you live with, your phone number, what banks you use, and with a little luck b ecause it's Ohio, even your social security number, within 24 hours. Easy pickings for identity theft. A certain amount of paranois is healthy.
Couldn't I do the same thing with a Cleveland phone book?
Phill Do not use solder on Equipment Grounding Conductor splices. It can fail and spatter under fault conditions.
-- Tom H
You mean ground electrode conductors don"t you? EGCs will be protected by the same overcurrent device as the ubngrounded conductor.
Nope, he means equipment grounding conductor, aka The Bare Wire, or The Green Wire, or The Ground Wire. The overcurrent device takes non-zero time to open, even under very high current (as in, a dead short) and the ground path needs to carry that current for that period of time. Soldered connections can melt and open or, perhaps worse, become resistive arcs, maybe before the overcurrent device can trip.
I don't know if it's code (US and/or Canada) but of those DIY books that even mention solder connections, most say to use crimps or wirenuts on ground wires.
Chip C Toronto
A properly made solder connection DOES NOT depend on the solder to make the connection.
110.14(B) "... Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered ..." I know this may be a lost art in these days of wave soldering and low current devices but back in the olden days electricians made the connection up tight enough to make do on it's own, then they soldered it. There should be significant copper to copper connection and if the solder was all gone the connection should still be solid.HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.