Winterizing Trailers #2 (update, job in progress)

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Yesterday, I went and started the job. Started to work on the first trailer. Someone had already drained most of the water. I'm going back to use my blow out adaptor, to be sure. And anti freeze the traps.
I learned that it's necessary to open all the outside compartments, squirrels fill them with hay, straw and shelled corn.
Wear knee pads for the outside work, or your knees get wet from grass, or abraded from the asphalt.
Carry a writing tablet, and take a lot of notes. Memory fails quickly, and this will be a help in the spring when time to reopen the trailers.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On 10/17/2012 8:37 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've heard that blowing out the water systems is not sufficient winterization ... you must run pink antifreeze through both the hot and cold water lines. It was said that water can gather or hide in low spots creating a place where it can freeze, expand and break the pipe. I don't know if I believe it or not, so I've always pumped through the pink stuff. I guess if you do it for a sufficiently long time, it should eventually get it all out. I remember at the building I used to work (suburb of Chicago) they would connect a large compressor, like the trailer mounted ones for jack hammers, to the sprinkler system and let it run for seemingly hours. Mist would continue coming out for a really long time. I usually blow out my garden hoses for the winter, however, I know there is still a little water left behind.
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Well, that's a concern. I sure don't want freeze broken pipes. How to get the antifreeze in? Buy some kind of pump?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
I've heard that blowing out the water systems is not sufficient winterization ... you must run pink antifreeze through both the hot and cold water lines. It was said that water can gather or hide in low spots creating a place where it can freeze, expand and break the pipe. I don't know if I believe it or not, so I've always pumped through the pink stuff. I guess if you do it for a sufficiently long time, it should eventually get it all out. I remember at the building I used to work (suburb of Chicago) they would connect a large compressor, like the trailer mounted ones for jack hammers, to the sprinkler system and let it run for seemingly hours. Mist would continue coming out for a really long time. I usually blow out my garden hoses for the winter, however, I know there is still a little water left behind.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

Use an inexpensive submersible utility pump with a garden hose type output connection. Place the pump in a 5gal bucket and add antifreeze as needed.
My recommendation would be to pump AF into the system, then drain the system recovering the AF to use on the next trailer which should leave just the AF in whatever low spots there are and minimize the use of the somewhat expensive AF. Don't forget to drain the water heater.
When I winterize my camper I blow it out with compressed air, but I let it run most of the day so there isn't much residual water left. It also doesn't get super cold here in N TX.
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That can work. I've also some where around here got a two gal garden sprayer. The water heaters are supposed to have a bypass valve, so I can drain the WH, and then pink the other lines. More to research, and learn.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Use an inexpensive submersible utility pump with a garden hose type output connection. Place the pump in a 5gal bucket and add antifreeze as needed.
My recommendation would be to pump AF into the system, then drain the system recovering the AF to use on the next trailer which should leave just the AF in whatever low spots there are and minimize the use of the somewhat expensive AF. Don't forget to drain the water heater.
When I winterize my camper I blow it out with compressed air, but I let it run most of the day so there isn't much residual water left. It also doesn't get super cold here in N TX.
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I got a little sump pump that would work, and auto shut off when the bucket gets low.
Greg
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That's an excellent choice.
By some happy coincidence, I bought a Nomad sprayer years ago, for cleaning equipment. I barely used it. Three galon tank, and discharges to a garden hose fitting. I will try that today, and see if I can pink the water lines on the trailers, with that.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
I got a little sump pump that would work, and auto shut off when the bucket gets low.
Greg
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Brilliant !
Greg

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On 10/17/2012 9:48 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

On mobile RVs, there is usually a DC pump used to pump clean water from the holding tank to all the faucets, etc. I disconnect the side that goes to the tank, connect a 3' piece of hose, to the pump and put it into a jug of the pink stuff. I have to hold the jug about level with the pump to provide priming. Then I just enable the pump and run each faucet or toilet until it gets pink. This also can be used the fill the sink traps. But, if you don't have an on-board fresh water tank, you have to improvise. Electronic Goldmine has a nice little 12VDC pump that develops 35PSI http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G19026 . With the proper fittings, it should work well and for only $13. BTW, I have 2 of these pumps. I'm planning on putting a hot water loop in the house to reduce the time it takes to get hot water at the furthest faucet from the water heater.
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You know, that's a good idea. I saw a couple 12 volt bilge pumps at Kmart, a year or so ago. They could be pressed into service, if needed.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On mobile RVs, there is usually a DC pump used to pump clean water from the holding tank to all the faucets, etc. I disconnect the side that goes to the tank, connect a 3' piece of hose, to the pump and put it into a jug of the pink stuff. I have to hold the jug about level with the pump to provide priming. Then I just enable the pump and run each faucet or toilet until it gets pink. This also can be used the fill the sink traps. But, if you don't have an on-board fresh water tank, you have to improvise. Electronic Goldmine has a nice little 12VDC pump that develops 35PSI http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G19026 . With the proper fittings, it should work well and for only $13. BTW, I have 2 of these pumps. I'm planning on putting a hot water loop in the house to reduce the time it takes to get hot water at the furthest faucet from the water heater.
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What fittings ont hat pump? THreads, or smooth, or?? Hose barb?
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But, if you don't have an on-board fresh water tank, you have to improvise. Electronic Goldmine has a nice little 12VDC pump that develops 35PSI http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G19026 . With the proper fittings, it should work well and for only $13.
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On 10/18/2012 2:11 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Hose barb.
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Thanks. Ought to be able to barb and clamp that onto tubing, and adapt to the garden hose output.
For the moment, my Nomad sprayer is working reasonably well. Two trailers done, so far. They each took two galons of pink, to flush the lines. I had to go buy more jugs of pink.
This is a big learning experience, for me.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .

Hose barb.
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On 10/19/2012 8:14 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

2 gallons seems like a lot, but then I've never done a so-called park model. On my 31' motor home, it takes about 3/4 gallon to flow through to the kitchen sink, bath sink, shower, toilet and 3' garden hose in one of the basement compartments. The 1st time I did it, I know I 'wasted' a lot, but now it's pretty routine. And, it's not quite as critical for me, living in western NC as it was when living in the Chicago area. I think I mentioned this in one of my previous replies, but you should drain and bypass the water heater. That way you don't have to waste pink stuff in the water heater.
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I'm sure I've wasted a lot. Yes, you did mention to bypass the water heater. Sadly, the two I've done so far, no sign of a bypass valve. A friend of mine comments "these must be older models". I'm sure they are. I will probably use a lot more pink, in that case.
So far, a couple of the trailers have outdoor shower. Flex hose, and hand shower, outdoors. Must be so you can spritz off, after a day in beach sand, before coming indoors? Washing the dog? Why would there be a flex hose and hand shower in outdoor compartment?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
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2 gallons seems like a lot, but then I've never done a so-called park model. On my 31' motor home, it takes about 3/4 gallon to flow through to the kitchen sink, bath sink, shower, toilet and 3' garden hose in one of the basement compartments. The 1st time I did it, I know I 'wasted' a lot, but now it's pretty routine. And, it's not quite as critical for me, living in western NC as it was when living in the Chicago area. I think I mentioned this in one of my previous replies, but you should drain and bypass the water heater. That way you don't have to waste pink stuff in the water heater.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

If you aren't draining the water heater and are only using 2 gal of AF you aren't doing the job properly. The WH is going to be at least 5gal capacity so without bypassing it will require at least 5gal of AF to fill.
Again you do not need to leave the system completely full of AF either, just ensure that any remaining liquid in the system is AF.
The proper efficient procedure would be:
- Turn off and disconnect the water supply - Drain the system from the low point drains (open high point faucets to let air in, a gallon or two should come out the drains) - Drain the water heater (5 gal min should come out) - Close the faucets and WH drain - Use compressed air for ~1hr to blow remaining water out the low point drains - Pump AF into the system until it's flowing from the low point drains (bucket there to catch it) - Drain from the low point drains into the collection bucket - Drain the WH into the collection bucket - Close up the system - Pour a cup or two of AF into each toilet or drain trap
This should leave only AF remaining in any low points in the system and things properly winterized without leaving everything full of expensive AF. Blowing all the water out first ensured you are diluting the AF as little as possible so it is readily reusable on the next trailer.
The key thing to remember is that you do not have to have everything full of AF to winterize it, you only have to replace any water that can't be readily drained with AF, i.e. any low points in the plumbing. Presuming small water heaters and not many low points in the plumbing you should need perhaps 6-8 gal of AF overall to do all the trailers.
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Thanks, I might print this off. What I'd been doing so far, is to hook up compressed air. Burp out the various faucets. A couple have a WH drain petcock, which gets opened. Burped out. And then, the pump with the pink stuff, pink out all the faucets. Which pink takes care of the traps.
One or two, the WH drains via removing the anode. That's a bit more work, bleed off the pressure, and then gravity drain. I found that removing the anode while the system is still under air pressure, results in me needing to go home for dry clothes. Lot of sediment particles in the WH, also.
I've not found a bypass valve behind the WH, any of the trailers. Not found a low point drain, either. Must be older trailers?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
If you aren't draining the water heater and are only using 2 gal of AF you aren't doing the job properly. The WH is going to be at least 5gal capacity so without bypassing it will require at least 5gal of AF to fill.
Again you do not need to leave the system completely full of AF either, just ensure that any remaining liquid in the system is AF.
The proper efficient procedure would be:
- Turn off and disconnect the water supply - Drain the system from the low point drains (open high point faucets to let air in, a gallon or two should come out the drains) - Drain the water heater (5 gal min should come out) - Close the faucets and WH drain - Use compressed air for ~1hr to blow remaining water out the low point drains - Pump AF into the system until it's flowing from the low point drains (bucket there to catch it) - Drain from the low point drains into the collection bucket - Drain the WH into the collection bucket - Close up the system - Pour a cup or two of AF into each toilet or drain trap
This should leave only AF remaining in any low points in the system and things properly winterized without leaving everything full of expensive AF. Blowing all the water out first ensured you are diluting the AF as little as possible so it is readily reusable on the next trailer.
The key thing to remember is that you do not have to have everything full of AF to winterize it, you only have to replace any water that can't be readily drained with AF, i.e. any low points in the plumbing. Presuming small water heaters and not many low points in the plumbing you should need perhaps 6-8 gal of AF overall to do all the trailers.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

Bypass valves seem to not be standard equipment on most RVs, even though the bypass kits sell for <$20. There must be a low point drain somewhere though.
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I'd sure love to learn if there is a trick to finding the low point drain. I havn't found one, yet.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Bypass valves seem to not be standard equipment on most RVs, even though the bypass kits sell for <$20. There must be a low point drain somewhere though.
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My hot tank has a twist valve like radiator, outside, near bottom.
Greg
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