windshield spoiler?

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On Tue, 10 May 2016 06:43:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

I don't think that. I never noticed any increase in noise, and I don't think I've ever heard tire noise.

But they'll pay for other things.

I have my top down 6 to 7 months a year in Baltimore, and when I lived in NYC and only drove on the weekends mostly it seemed there was one weekend day every month in the winter that it was warm enough to put the top down.

Now that I don't understand at all. What does one have to do with the other?

They hadn't driven convertibles since they had horse and buggies or rickshaws. It's not an increasing market there, but I don't see how it can be declining.

I was never interested in the "Image of Fun and Freedom" but in actual fun and freedom, and that hasn't diminished. When I was working, the highlight of many spring, summer, fall days was the drive home.
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On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:20:25 -0400, Micky

I'm looking forward to baysitting the TD again this summer. (a convertible with no top - and only a pair of "brooklands" wind screens). When it looks like rain it sits with the toneau cover on.
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On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:44:31 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I would like one of those.
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On Tue, 10 May 2016 18:00:09 -0400, Micky

I helped a friend rebuild it. He's got more cars than he can drive - so I get to exercise one every once in a while. I prefer the MG over the Fiat cinco even though it has a roof and windshield. See if he gets the Isetta finished this summer.
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On 05/10/2016 06:55 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

The one I always lusted after was the Messerschmitt KR175. Helps to have a death wish to go with it as you get run over by a Prius. One of my more reasonable strange likes is the Citroen Traction Avant. At least the 11's and 15's can outrun a determined bicyclist.
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On Tue, 10 May 2016 20:55:27 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I'd like a friend like that too.

Let me know. In fact if you could email his phone number, I would like that.
I had a friend who gave away his beautiful big Cadillac, but instead of giving it to me, he gave it to a rich guy in his NYCith building, someone who could have bought his own, who retired it to his other home in Florida, to frolic with his other cars.** I'm just kidding, he's entitled to give it to whomever he wants and I'd be overwhelmed if I had two cars. I need a wife to manage one of them.
**My friend otoh ran out of work and ran out of money and had to move out of NYC after a lifetime of living there. But selling his apartment gave him enough money to live for years elsewhere.
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On 05/10/2016 04:00 PM, Micky wrote:

I'm amazed. I took a quick trip to Hemmings and there were quite a few in the 15K range that looked presentable. Of course, by the time you really go looking they might not be so attractive. Still, it's better than the 911 craziness.
The fads always were unpredictable. I went to an auction and they brought out a beautifully restored Corvair. It couldn't even get the reserve and the owner looked like he was about to cry. The auctioneer finally told him he didn't have to take the low bid, but that was all he could reasonably expect. Fat fender coupes were in that year, Corvairs were dogs.
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On 05/10/2016 03:44 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I put a tonneau cover on the Sprite, fitting it on a hot summer day. It looked sharp, a white cover on a dark blue car, you could bounce a quarter off it.
The downside was coming home around 3AM in the cool of the evening half in the bag and trying to snap the thing shut.
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wrote:

Same with the toneau on my '57n Fargo. It was made of convertible top material - and if it was off when the dew hit in the evening, it was off untill the sun bas bright!!! The toneau on the Td is a rather loose fitting vinyl "tarp" with snap fittings
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On Wed, 11 May 2016 17:01:10 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

An ongoing problem with my Buick and one or two Lebarons was that, it seemed, the vinyl would shrink. It got to the point where I had to go to shopping center, attach a come-along to a light pole and to the roof behind the rear window, and tighten it to latch the top. In the fall. One year I hadn't latched it all summer.
But this Toyota is so easy to latch, and hasn't gotten harder over the 4 or 5 years I've had it, plus the top is a lot older than that. I don't know if it's the original 2000 top or not.
And afaict, the difference is that it's canvas and not vinyl. So why did they insist on using vinyl for so long?
And can't I get canvas for any model?
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On Thu, 12 May 2016 04:28:29 -0400, Micky

MOST converible tops over history have been canvas - some wiyh vinyl impregnated - and some "canvas" is fully p[re-shrunk - some is not.
You can have a top made for any vehicle from any material you desire. A bit more expensive than a pre-made off-the-shelf top
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On Fri, 13 May 2016 01:04:17 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I wish they'd told me about all this years ago. My first replacement top was hard to latch when I picked it up, iirc, though it got a lot easier.
I had one top guy who talked about that when I first went to see him, without my bringing it up, about how he left the top a little more loose so when it shrank it would be perfect. Great, I thought. Then I go to pick it up and he tells me, "Just be sure to put up the top before it gets dark." Huh? Some of the best time is at night, warm or cool. That might have been the top that needed the come-along to close.
No top guy out of at least 4 suggested canvas, and the JC Whitney catalog, which might have had canvas, didn't convince me to buy it, so I bought vinyl-impregnated because that's what it had and what I was used to.
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On Sat, 14 May 2016 04:28:15 -0400, Micky

The only way to get a REAL GOOD fit is a custom made top. Usually the J-C Whitney tops and their ilk are pretty cheap - even if not inexpensive.
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On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 5:20:36 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:

Of course. Unless the funds for a vehicle are unlimited, one has to choose which features to pay for. The numbers show that "convertible" is not a feature that as many people as before are opting to pay for.

It's called math. More people are choosing an SUV over a convertible. What's not to understand?

The "market" can be determined by the number of convertibles sold vs. the total number of vehicles sold and expressed as a percentage. If the number of vehicles is going up (as consumers in the Emerging Markets begin to purchase vehicles) but the percentage of convertibles is going down, then the *global* market is declining.

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DerbyDad03 wrote: ".

It's called math. More people are choosing an SUV over a convertible. What's not to understand?

Probably the way it was worded threw Micky off. I'm the same way: I understand things if one changes the way they explain it - even if it's not the way the majority grasp it.
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On Tue, 10 May 2016 18:04:35 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Pretty much. I had no idea what was intended, as my question implied, but as my next answer said, even understanding what was meant, I still don't agree. (with the original, not the part quoted here.)

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On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:50:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

Your phrasing. People may choose an SUV over a convertible, but that does not imply the appeal of the convertible has changed. It only means for those who buy the SUV that the SUV has more appeal than the convertible, not that the convertible has less appeal than it did. It reflects the fact that you can't get both features in one car.

Maybe it's one of many ways the market can be described but I think it's the gross number of cars that matter, and the market is staying the same, very low.

This is what that url says about India and China: "And consumers in fast-growing markets such as China and India—which increasingly are dictating the strategies of automakers—prefer the enclosed comfort of SUVs and sedans as a barrier to smog and a buffer from crowded streets."
Nothing about the market going down. And the last clause is one of those unsupported leaps. To show that the appeal of SUVs and sedans versus convertibles is influenced by the smog and crowded streets, they'd have to show that people bought convertibles more when there was less smog and less crowded streets, and that's not true and they don't try to show it, and they don't even claim it. There were never more than a teeny tiny number of convetibles in those two markets, probably brought by rich Americans working there or American consular officials or their families. The biggest supply of unsupported leaps is found in the last sentence of most TV evening news stories, and probably other similar offerings. If you pay attention to the last sentence, it is usually a generalization, a conclusion, a moral, a witticism, or something like that, and it is almost always unsupported (or even stupid, but I'm referring to TV, not the url above).
Actually there are a lot of convertible models for sale, just no full size ones except I think Rolls Royce. Not as many as before 1975, but more than 1980.

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On Tue, 10 May 2016 22:53:52 -0400, Micky

Actually you CAN. What do you call a Jeep Wrangler Ultimate - or even a Jeep Renegade? Even the ultimate SUV - the Hummer, was available as a "convertible".Also, the Landy Evoque. and the Murano CrossConvertible, There WAS also the RAV4 softop and the Suzuki X90.
I'm sure that's not an exhaustive list.
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On Wed, 11 May 2016 16:27:08 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

That would be great. And I'm sure would be thrilled with your suggestions. I didn't think of them because they're not for me.

I'm looking for it. ...
I found this, http://www.ebay.com/bhp/jeep-wrangler-unlimited-soft-top but it afaict, the top only comes off the rear third** of the passenger compartment. I'm usually in the driver's seat, far from that. **but maybe there are roof panels for the first 2 thirds that come off. That would be pretty darn good, I agree, even though it still leaves the tops of the doors. But it's bad that the rear part is canvas and has to be removed and replaced by hand iiuc.
This one http://www.ebay.com/itm/97-06-JEEP-WRANGLER-SOFT-TOP-TINTED-WINDOWS-/230515601000 is shorter, so there is only one door with windows, and the rest opens up. Unfortunaately $207 only buys the top, not the car.
Here's a better picture of a 4-door top, and below are the many models it fits. It doesn't seem to be very hard, not even the part above the first two seats, but otoh, it clearly as ribs. Not sure what size it folds to. Only $700 used: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-2015-Jeep-Wrangler-4-Door-Soft-Top-Factory-OEM-Complete-/322083057735?fits=Make%3AJeep |Model%3AWrangler|Submodel%3AUnlimited
I found this, "Auto review: 2014 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited is a convertible family car" http://www.indystar.com/story/money/2014/08/20/auto-review-2014-jeep-wrangler-unlimited-is-a-convertible-family-car/14181945/ but in the 4 minute review, he spends 20 seconds on the convertible part ("there are two roof panels you can remove.... you can get a canvas top." "you can take the top off".)
Did you know there used to be Checker taxicabs that opened up for the passenger seat. Still a roof farther forward but nothing above or behind them. 1930's or 40's until they stopped running.

AFAICT so far, this has an optional Targa top. Not enough for me. This related: I don't understand why, but even if everything I'm looking at I can see through the windows, it looks much better with the top down. In the same way it's bad if there is something behind the targa top, behind me, even if I'm not looking at it. I'd like to get rid of the windshield too, but otoh, I don't want a jeep with the canvas top that takes a bunch of work to attach. I like either the electric top or the one in the movie "The Graduate" where he just reaches behind and pulls up the whole top.
(But the opposite is also a problem. I can't use a hard top that pulls off in one piece because I have no garage, no way to lift the top off, and don't even park next to my own property. It's about 30 feet to the front yard and 130 to the back, with bushes in the way.)
Another one, "Also, the MySky panels are great in theory but not necessarily in practice. They are lightweight panels that can be removed to open up the Renegade’s roof. I found them easy to detach and install for a nice convertible experience for around town and rock climbing. " Not good enough.
I found this page from 2014, "The Jeep Renegade has an optional targa top that I think is really cool, but what if we took it a step further and made the Renegade a convertible. Thankfully, with the magic of photoshop we can see what it would look like. It reminds me of the Wrangler with no roof. "

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On Wed, 11 May 2016 16:27:08 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Not an SUV, but I just heard on the radio about an India-made convertible. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/83495-tata-nano-convertible.html Picture 2 screens down. The Tata Nano. Not quite luxury, like I'd like.
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