window getting wet from inside

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The moisture levels are too high for the insulation and environmental conditions. Constantly wet windows and walls lead to mold and bacteria growth and encourage lung diseases.
Of course the problem can be solved with either or both. The best is more insulation.
BTW:I replaced sashless windows with aluminum units in my previous house and they were equal or even nicer in some ways than my current double glazed all vynyl units. They were thermally broken and built like two completely independant window systems fastened together. More air gap than the best size though.
message

is too high. I'm

humidity is okay and the

aluminum frames is too

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High humidity *could* be the OP's problem and that would lead to some other issues.
But high humidity alone would *not* lead to *FROST* on the inside of the window as the OP has. That can only happen if the inside surface of the window/frame is really cold (<32F). With a really cold frame, even 30% RH inside will condense/frost on the window (dew point for 70F and 30RH is about 37F).
Adding storm windows will help to reduce heat loss and stop the inside frame/glass from getting so cold.
daestrom
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yea, but if indoor humidity is not the problem then, would it be the installation of the windows? double pane getting condensation AND ice build up when really cold

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All windows, almost regardless of R value, will have some condensation given enough indoor moisture and temperature difference in:out

would lead to some

on the inside of the

inside surface of the

cold frame, even 30% RH

for 70F and 30RH is

and stop the inside

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wrote:

No. Installation problems would cause cold air leaks AROUND the windows, between the window and the wall, and would drastically lower RH in the house due to infiltration of cold dry air.

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snipped-for-privacy@sny.der.on.ca wrote:

Huh? That makes no sense and isn't true based on personal experience. A storm window even if it fits over just the glass, will increase the temperature of the inside glass. But, storm window typically fits just inside the outside trim or fit on top of the trim. Thus decreasing any air infiltration between the window and the frame. Storm windows can easily reduce temperature fluctuations in a house, especially those with metal framed windows.
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On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 01:32:50 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

I was not talking about storm windows. The OP had asked if the (improper) installation of the windows could cause the problem. My reply was ONLY to that question. Look at the number of >> before the messages. My reply, with >> was to the part with >>>
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More bottom posting confusion.

that would lead to some

*FROST* on the inside of the

the inside surface of the

really cold frame, even 30% RH

point for 70F and 30RH is

loss and stop the inside

leaks AROUND the

would drastically lower

air.
asked if the

the problem. My

of >> before the

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snipped-for-privacy@sny.der.on.ca wrote:

The thread shows that you msg was in response to my comment.
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On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:11:06 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@sny.der.on.ca wrote:

40% or less? Is that guaranteed to prevent condensation?
What's the ideal humidity between 16-21C for comfortable living?
cheers, Pete.
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Pete, the ideal RH for you may be higher than the ideal Relative Humidity for your windows. It depends on the windows, how cold it is outside, how warm it is inside, how your house is constructed and the people who live there. It can't really be answered over the internet. Most people would prefer 35 to 45% RH. The windows may sweat under those conditions.
Stretch
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We installed an HRV last winter for that same reason, windows so wet that on very cold days, ice would form. We had to chisel the ice off the bottom of the patio door in order to open it on extreme cold day. (Canada) The HRV works fine and has helped. BUT!!! the humidity is at 36% now and it is only -7 Celcius outside which isn't very cold and the windows have condensation at the bottom again. I think our windows where either or both : very cheap and poorly installed.

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wrote:

Not guaranteed - but pretty darn close.

see: http://www.historichomeworks.com/hhw/library/coatings/moisturecontrol.html
where it says: "Indoor Humidity The most critical item in preventing moisture damage is to keep indoor relative humidity at reasonable levels during the heating season. While exceptionally dry conditions may cause respiratory problems and shrinking of wood furniture or trim, humidities of 30 to 40 percent appear to prevent these problems. When indoor humidity exceeds 40 percent during cold weather, moisture problems begin to appear. It is difficult even with proper vapor retarders to construct a house that will not have condensation problems when indoor humidity exceeds 40 percent. When a house is retrofitted with insulation without the benefit of vapor retarders and air leakage control, an even lower humidity may be required. Persistent condensation on double-glazed windows is a good indicator that relative humidity is too high and may cause damage to the exterior finish."
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Pete C wrote:

Look on a humidity meter. Ours says indicates normal from 50 to 75 percent. Humidity in our house usually runs between 50 and 65 percent. My wife complains anytime the humidity drops below 50 percent. And no, our windows don't get wet.
Condensation on the glass means that the glass is cold. To stop condensation increase the insulation (add more layers of glass) or increase air circulation.
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On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 03:32:53 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

George, how cold does it get where you live? Over 50% humidiy here in winter will get you mold problems and structural damage.
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snipped-for-privacy@sny.der.on.ca wrote:

-25 F, but that's the extreme, low teens to zero is a fairly common low in December and January. Winters are highly variable. We have no problems with mold, no problem with structural damage. The ambient humidity varies quiet a bit though out the day and most statistics for the area (average monthly and daily highs and lows, etc.) don't provide a real picture. Natural humidity is pretty low. Weather broadcasts in the summer will often indicate a humidity level of 50 percent, but that is likely only for an hour or two with most of the day below 30 percent. This also an area of low precipitation, annual average is in the 11 inch range.
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we've tried it all...fan on ceiling, the fireplace on, the heat registers are below the window and it's double pane glass. These windows suck!!!
wrote:

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When you take a shower, does the bathroom mirror fog up? Does this mean that there is something wrong with your mirror and you need to buy a new one?
When the same thing happens to a window for the same reason, why do people always blame the window?
John

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nope, mirror doesn't fog up. Not too much humidity in the house, then what? Seems like the answer lies in the glass behing too cold....some other windows have better insulant between the two panes of glass.
"John?] "
wrote:

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wrote:

Argon helps- a LITTLE bit - but thermopane basically is thermopane. Non-conductive spacer bars help with "edge freezing", but if you are getting wet window panes and ice, your humidity - WHATEVER it is, is TOO HIGH.
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