Wind chill and frozen pipes again

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On Tuesday, January 21, 2014 11:31:11 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Is that why I didn't get a Xmas card this year? Figures you'd now start in with this BS. Here I am saying the exact same things you're saying in this thread and you take the opportunity to start in with this crap. BTW, if you'd actually read my posts, you'd have seen that I've been right about this from the beginning and my position is no different than yours. But go ahead, feel free to add more and more people to your "killfile" so you can wander in the wilderness alone.
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On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 6:55:16 AM UTC-6, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

You are totally anal...you think by repeating yourself over and over and over that you win the point. You only wear ppl out of your ranting so then you can feel smug. It's you more than your point that we dislike...just learn how to present it! .02
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On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 8:49:13 AM UTC-5, Bob_Villa wrote:

I really don't care what you like or don't like. Go back to the beginning of this whole discussion on windchill. I presented facts, science, perfectly civily. When you still have some idiots who insist that windchill is all about evaportation, that it's effects don't extend to inanimate objects, and are still insisting that they are right, well, then it's not my problem. I suppose if they wanted to argue that Ohm's Law is V=IR^2, I should just accept that and not get annoyed after about 20 posts. And even then, what did IO say? "good grief". If you can't handle that, you should grow up.
And for further proof, go look at who started this all up again after it was covered in another thread. One person made a post, clearly trolling and trying to revive it all over again. I didn't take the bait. Neither did a bunch of other posters, but then someone else, who was involved in the previous thread and should have known better, had to chime in and start it up again. So, perhaps you should save your comments for them.
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On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 10:25:41 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Well, Ohm's law is E=IR, but you've got the rest. ;-)

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Wed Jan 22, 2014 Weather page says western NY at -4F.
My outdoor thermometer says -5.
Fortunately, I left a faucet dripping last night, and I have water. I'd dare to guess the water bottles in the truck are frozen solid.
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Christopher A. Young
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On Tuesday, January 21, 2014 1:18:46 PM UTC-5, Vic Smith wrote:

That's right, the rate of heat transfer from a pipe that's above ambient will vary based on the material.

And there is the correlation.

It's not just a "feel". Skin exposed with wind blowing on it is also going to be colder than skin without wind blowing on it. And I've said and agreed that the index was developed for humans. That doesn't mean the effect is not present on other objects that are above ambient and in the wind. The original question that started all this was if one should just use the outside temp or reported windchill numbers when trying to figure out if pipes will freeze. I say both are useful. I'd be more concerned about pipes in a drafty crawlspace freezing when the temp is 25F and the windchill is 5F than I would if the temp was 25F with no windchill.
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On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 07:35:58 -0500, Stormin Mormon

You are the Southbound end of a Northbound horse! You just had to rattle trader4's cage again didn't you? Karma is gonna get you!
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On Monday, January 20, 2014 12:37:18 PM UTC-5, Gordon Shumway wrote:

He didn't rattle my cage. The first response from a rattled cage was from philo. Everyone up to that point, had ignored it.
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On 1/20/2014 12:37 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

this week, which is -17c for centigrade folks.
With the wind chill so far below zero, I think it's a good couple days to leave a faucet drip over night. I'm trying to decide to drip the hot or cold. So far, been thinking hot.
Might also cardboard and staple over some windows that don't really need light coming in.
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On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:49:59 -0500, Stormin Mormon

all dripping, or drain them all.
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On 1/20/2014 5:03 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

That's wise counsell. I do remember a friend of mine who left one drip, and the other froze.
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On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 07:35:58 -0500, Stormin Mormon

tape. Set the garages up over your trailer to keep the wind off, taping them together with gorilla tape to make one BIG garage. Then leave a window open in the trailer to let some heat into the garage to keep it above 33F, and your pipes won't freeze. Make it long enough to park your Blazer inside too, and let it run to keep warm. The exhaust will put you to sleep so you won't feel the cold.
How's that for an Allegheny redneck solution???
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On 1/20/2014 1:05 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Best I've heard in ages. You're first rate, in spite of what people say.
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On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 07:35:58 -0500, Stormin Mormon

If your pipes don't perspire or leak, if they're not wet on the outside, wind chill is not a factor. It doesn't exist for pipes that are not wet on the outside. Even though plenty of people talk like it does.
It doesn't exist for cars, either, unless they are wet on the outside. Not "were wet" but "are wet".
It exists for people, who perspire, a little bit everywhere I think. The wind blows across the wet skin, even so slightly wet that it doesn't feel wet, and the water draws heat from the skin as it evaporates. The quantity of heat needed to make water evaporate, the heat of vaporization, is the same as the heat required to raise the temperature of the same amount of water by 15 or 20 degrees, iirc. It's the same amount of heat needed by water about to boil on a stove, to go from water to water vapor, although I guess one cannot tell by looking how much heat that is.
I don't know about other animals. Dogs pant, but do they in very cold weather? Probably not, and I've never heard of a dog's tongue freezing because of wind chill. They probably keep their tongues in their mouths.

The wind doesn't matter, but the 0F does.

If it is actually zero where the pipe is, yes.
LIke under the trailer maybe, where it's not heated? What do other people with trailers do? If you live in a trailer park, you'd find more people who know abou tthis there than you willl here. Or at least they should know what they do and what happens to their pipes when they do it. Even if you don't live in one, go visit one and ask them. Isn't there usually a manager. He should know what to do.

Whichever pipe is exposed to the very cold temperature. Both of them, if that is the case.

Perhaps, but that won't cause the pipes to freeze.
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...snip...

Not my pug! His tongue is almost always hanging out his mouth, from as little as an inch to as much as 4".
I don't know about windchill, but I do know that his tongue will stick to a cold metal pole if he gets too close.
This isn't my dog, but I've seen this situation in real life more than once.
https://d2npbuaakacvlz.cloudfront.net/images/uploaded/large-present/2012/12/19/adorable-pug-christmas-card-1355973015.jpg
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On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 20:38:57 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

Well, that makes it one to nothing in favor of panting in cold weather. I had never paid attention, so I was just guessing.
Tongues probably have a good blood supply, I'll bet. Is that what makes them red?

No kidding? How often has he done that? Were you there to free him?

I can see why a dog wouldn't anticipate this problem. Chidren don't either Really, how could they unless they red a lot?
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wrote:

Is that one of those DAMHIKT statements? What did you do to free him?
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wrote:

period. On a human body it is how quickly the body gets below it's normal temperature to the point you get frostbite. Evaporation is PART of it - but evaporation would be faster in a "dry cold" which does not feel as cold as a "damp cold"
The standard Wind Chill formula for Environment Canada is: TWC.12+0.6215Ta-(11.37V+0.16)+(0.3965TaV +0.16)
where TWC is the wind chill index, based on the Celsius temperature scale, Ta is the air temperature in degrees Celsius (°C), and V is the wind speed at 10 metres (standard anemometer height), in kilometres per hour (km/h).[10] The equivalent formula in US customary units is:[11] TWC5.4+0.6215Ta-(35.75V+0.16) + (0.4275Ta(V+0.16)
where TWC is the wind chill index, based on the Fahrenheit scale, is the air temperature, measured in °F, and is the wind speed, in mph.[12] Windchill temperature is defined only for temperatures at or below 10 °C (50 °F) and wind speeds above 4.8 kilometres per hour (3.0 mph).[11]
So, in North America humidity has no "input" into the calculation.
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On Monday, January 20, 2014 2:14:33 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:

BS. Following that theory, a car radiator is transfering just as much heat with no air moving through it as it is with a high volume of air moving through it.

Wrong. If you have a brick that is 100F and you put it outside when it's 50F, does it cool off faster with or without a fan blowing on it?
Even though plenty of people talk like it does.

Then feel free to block the airflow to your radiator. It will still transfer the same amount of heat, right?

You completely ignore the heat removed by *convection*. It doesn't have to be wet. If it is wet, then yes that increases the heat transfer.

Which has nothing to do with the situation at hand.

And people don't sweat on their exposed skin when it's 15F either.
and I've never heard of a dog's tongue freezing

Of course the wind matters. You think it takes just as much energy to heat a house when it 0 with a 45 MPH wind and without? Good grief.

Just if it's zero? Just a drip? Good grief.

Yes, great idea. I live in a house and I should go survey folks who live in a trailer. Good grief.
Isn't

And I'll bet if the pipes are really exposed to the very cold, eg 0F number you cited, that they will freeze with just a drip anyway. The lower the temp, the more exposed, the more water you need flowing.

I can see why.
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On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 04:48:42 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

I've decided that your saying Good grief is reason enough not to reply.
You like insults better than a real discussion, and I don't.

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