Will hydrogen balloons come back?

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Helium is rapidly becoming unobtainable and very expensive when you find it.
Now that smoking is virtually illegal, maybe hydrogen balloons are the answer (outside only).
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On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:03:42 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Now where I find it. Around here, they sell mylar balloons for parties etc. for one dollar each, including the helium.
And people take advantage of the low price. Instead of one balloon, they buy 6.
It makes me sick. There should be a 2000% excise tax on non-indurstial uses of helium.

IIRC it turns out the Hindenberg either a) didn't burn because of the hydrogen, or b) it was filed with hydrogen because helium was a war-restricted commodity, and the US wouldn't sell helium, except maybe to allies and maybe only for the war effort. Even though the US wasn't at war in 1937 others were?? Or at least war was coming.
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micky wrote:

Why? Is it bad for our ozone layer? Other reason?
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On 9/21/2012 2:56 PM, Bill wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19676639
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chaniarts wrote:

Thank you. That was worth knowing. I noticed, though, the following "dumb" quote: "There are a finite number of helium atoms on the planet".
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On 9/21/2012 3:26 PM, Bill wrote:

Absolutely WRONG! New helium atoms are being create continuously from radioactive decay.
Paul
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email.me:

This explains why the human voice has increased in pitch since Neolithic times.
--
Tegger

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Perhaps someone on this list can squeak to that issue?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
This explains why the human voice has increased in pitch since Neolithic times.
--
Tegger



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> Prof Welton told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We're not going to run > out of helium tomorrow - but on the 30 to 50 year timescale we will have > serious problems of having to shut things down if we don't do something > in the mean time." Geez, the more it changes, the more it stays the same.
When I was 12 years old, the big fear was overpopulation. Scientists predicted that by the year 2000, there'd be so many people on the Earth that each of us would only have 1 square foot to stand on.
When I was 15, based on everything I heard, I was worried the world was gonna run out of oil before I got my driver's license.
In the 1970's and 80's, pollution was the boogie man. We were going to pollute the air, rivers and soil to the point where all the food chains collapsed and we'd have to eat scavengers to survive, like maggots, rats and catfish.
In the 1990's the south pole started acting up and we discovered that CFC's were burning a hole in our ozone layer, and we'd all have to wear moon suits to protect us from the UV radiation.
Then we partied like it was 1999 when the Y2K bug didn't destroy our civiliization.
And then global warming hit us when we weren't looking. All the CO2 from factories, auto emmisions and home heating is causing the polar ice caps to melt and hurricanes to be stronger and more frequent.
Now, it's a global shortage of helium that's gonna hit us in the next 30 to 50 years.
Maybe someone should tell this Prof. Welton that in 30 to 50 years, no parent is gonna buy helium balloons for his kid's birthday or bring him a helium balloon while he's recovering from surgery in the hospital. He's gonna buy what the kid really wants, and it'll be a tiny battery powered remote control helicopter with a CCTV camera on board so he can fly around the hospital and see where he's going on his cell phone display. They're on sale at Wal-Mart for $39.99.
That'll be the end of the helium shortage.
--
nestork


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Anyone remember Archie Bunker and Michael Stivik hollering at each other about aerosol cans, and global cooling? I remember that. The planet turns into big ice ball. Robert Ringer commented on that, in his book "Winning through intimidation".
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .

Geez, the more it changes, the more it stays the same.
When I was 12 years old, the big fear was overpopulation. Scientists predicted that by the year 2000, there'd be so many people on the Earth that each of us would only have 1 square foot to stand on.
When I was 15, based on everything I heard, I was worried the world was gonna run out of oil before I got my driver's license.
In the 1970's and 80's, pollution was the boogie man. We were going to pollute the air, rivers and soil to the point where all the food chains collapsed and we'd have to eat scavengers to survive, like maggots, rats and catfish.
In the 1990's the south pole started acting up and we discovered that CFC's were burning a hole in our ozone layer, and we'd all have to wear moon suits to protect us from the UV radiation.
Then we partied like it was 1999 when the Y2K bug didn't destroy our civiliization.
And then global warming hit us when we weren't looking. All the CO2 from factories, auto emmisions and home heating is causing the polar ice caps to melt and hurricanes to be stronger and more frequent.
Now, it's a global shortage of helium that's gonna hit us in the next 30 to 50 years.
Maybe someone should tell this Prof. Welton that in 30 to 50 years, no parent is gonna buy helium balloons for his kid's birthday or bring him a helium balloon while he's recovering from surgery in the hospital. He's gonna buy what the kid really wants, and it'll be a tiny battery powered remote control helicopter with a CCTV camera on board so he can fly around the hospital and see where he's going on his cell phone display. They're on sale at Wal-Mart for $39.99.
That'll be the end of the helium shortage.
--
nestork



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On 9/22/2012 4:27 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Everyone should read Michael Crichton's "State of Fear".
Environmentalists hate it because it refutes them but the point is how the public is manipulated about something bad that might happen in the future.
As for running out of helium, the problem is mainly need for superconductivity needed for the high density magnets in MRI machines. I don't keep abreast of the field but super conductivity at room temperature has eluded researchers but there are materials that work above the boiling point of helium. Like everything else it reduces down to economics of using them.
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wrote:

oh no, now the helium industry will become the biggest supporter and provider of reasons as to why we need new nuclear plants...to fill up those mylar balloons
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On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 20:31:25 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"

If we could get that fusion thing going we would have plenty of helium but you won't get much from a fission reactor.
There is also not much in "air", it quickly goes up and off into space.
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Shhh.... don't confuse them with facts.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 9/21/2012 3:26 PM, Bill wrote:

Absolutely WRONG! New helium atoms are being create continuously from radioactive decay.
Paul
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And, there appear to be liberals in the Nobel prize department?
"Two years ago, the shortage of helium prompted the American Nobel Prize-winning scientist, Robert Richardson, to call for the price of one party balloon filled with the gas to cost more than 60."
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .

Thank you. That was worth knowing. I noticed, though, the following "dumb" quote: "There are a finite number of helium atoms on the planet".
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chaniarts wrote:

Bill wrote:

I thought this was dumber:
"prices were going up and supplies were under pressure."
Aren't supplies always under pressure?
=====Helium is used to keep the large magnets in MRI scanners cool ===== "You're not going into an MRI scanner because you've got a sore toe - this is important stuff."
Tell that to GE and the US heathcare system.
Of course they're going to give you an MRI for your stubbed toe. Why? Because you'll sue their ass off for malpractice if you have to have your toe amputated because they didn't scan it.
And the MRI is a revenue-center for hospitals. GE sells them on that angle.
That said, it an MRI doesn't use up helium based on the number of scans it does. It uses up helium just sitting there, regardless if you do 1 scan per day or 100.
That said, if you have way more MRI units than you need to actually serve a given population base, then you're using more helium than you need too.
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Bill Nye wrote:

"Need" is not the best word that's applicable. Like guns, the word for MRI's is "want."
Of course some places do actually "need" MRI machines. Canada for one. There are more MRI machines in my town than in the whole country of Canada. The wait time for an MRI scan here is measured in hours; it's weeks in Canada.
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If you can get one at all. Often they will send you for a CT-scan first. If that shows anything, /then/ they schedule you for an MRI. CT-scans are not too useful for soft-tissue, but they do it like this anyway to keep the few MRIs from being overbooked.
Another thing I learned from my GP recently is that GPs book (by fax!) CTs and MRIs as soon as the patient presents, just in case. That way, they can get the earliest appointment possible, whether it ends up being needed or not. For this reason, there is a lot of overbooking and a significant number of cancellations as a certain number of patients end up not needing the scan after all.
So, part of the shortage up here is a result of overbooking, which is a reaction to shortage, which itself causes shortages of booking times as physicians try to compensate for the shortage of machines and booking times. Got that?
Or you can go across the border to New York and get an MRI in days for $500-$750. But no MRI provider will give you a scan without a prescription from your Canadian physician, which may need to talk him into sending, and then you need to make sure the Canadian hospital will accept a US MRI, which is not guaranteed.
Oh, and one more thing: Canadian operating rooms are open from 8:00am to 4:30pm. Period. Outside of those times, ORs open up for emergencies only. That's why Granny's hip replacement took 2 months.
Now, you guys go ahead and vote for that Obama fellow. Go on. Do it.
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On the other hand, that Obama fellow got his ideas from some guy named Romney, who tried something pretty close to the Canadian system in Massachusetts.
Is Ron Paul running?
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wrote:

Gary Johnson
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