Why street lights on all night?

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On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:09:54 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@rochester.rr.com wrote:

I guess no one read my whole message. I did mention to keep on some SECURITY lights. But there's a big difference between security and what many of these lots use.
I used to live on a farm and I know how much light comes from one of those mercury vapor or sodium pole lights. Two or three of those would be plenty for security and they consume something in the range of 70 to 150W each. But even the smaller car dealers are running multiple halogen floodlights that are at least 1000W each. Then they have many other lights on top of that. I dont doubt that even the smallest dealers are burning up 10,000W at minimum all night every night. And larger lots are using much more than that. There's a big difference between security and pure waste.
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UHHH duh...... can you spell S-E-C-U-R-I-T-Y???? a car lot is much less likely to be vandalized if the lot is lit so the little bastards can be seen.
s
wrote:

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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The scavengers that harvest other people's goods after midnight, would dearly love a blackout period. The 3rd shift cops, not so much. Visit a military base to see dark sky. Most of them have few if any streetlights, other than in family housing. Makes finding the BOQ lotsa fun if you get the main gate after dark. Military bases aren't real big on street and building signs legible by anyone over 25 years old, either.
-- aem sends...
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Well we have to keep our No1 position in everything, using the most energy also. We need V8s, incandesant bulbs, non condensing heating and big houses, we need big lights.
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In article

The value of overnight street lighting was established CENTURIES ago. It provides improved public safety, particularly crime suppression.

One man's "waste" is another man's "value".

True "pollution" by such industries has all but been eliminated, compared to a mere, few decades ago. Most so-called environmentally conscious or proactive folks are not old enough to remember how things were. I remember black clouds of coal smoke. "Chimney scrubbers" were developed and deployed, to name just ONE of the many improvements that have made low sulphur coal combustion almost clean.
...and carbon dioxide, a gas produced by ALL living creatures, is NOT a pollutant despite baseless, contrary claims.

On the surface or "up front", eliminating overnight, public lighting might appear to save some money. In reality, the CO$T to a community from such "savings" would quickly become apparent in the form of diminished public safety (increased accidents, etc) and increased crime.
If you think there are too many tire slashings and window smashings NOW, just turn off the street lights for a while and see how much such crime increases.

Great. Let them test such folly - then get back to the rest of us.

That's almost a cliche of the Environmentalist Wacko movement: Spend millions of dollars to save a few dollars. Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

The irony of such technology is that it ignores the very basis of what has driven mankind since the wheel: Cost vs value.
You can bet that at least ONE householder in each area would turn the lights back on - EACH NIGHT - just for the security they offer.
It is simply appalling to me that so many (too many) folks believe that such a system would be a good thing. They are incapable of seeing beyond the simple function of turning off a street light.
I am honestly concerned for the future should such folly take an even greater hold of our society. There are so many BETTER things to concern us and on which we should spend our money.
--
:)
JR

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lights deter drug sales, vandalism, grafitti artists and help percieved safety.
take a empty car parking lot, your car may not have started after work, so you got a ride with a friend and left it till morning.
would you want the lights off, returning in the morning to a empty lot, car stolen? or prefer you car on blocks totally stripped?
newer parking lot and security lights are far more efficent and aim the light down to minimize shy waste
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Four statements in that sentence. The first three are unsupportable mythology, the last, "perceived" safety, is certainly correct. Fighting crime through lighting is one of those "commonly accepted as true" ideas that the data doesn't support.
Yes, in Europe most communities switch off some though not all lights during times of low traffic flow when they aren't useful. That includes overhead street lighting as well as traffic signals. But in the parts of Europe where I lived, people went to bed early too, so it might not work as well in the US.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Criminals need lighting to rob you safely.
--
<<//--------------------\>>
Van Chocstraw
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:03:54 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

    No. Lights do not deter crime. Lights do move it however.
    Many years ago when I was studying stoical analysis I remember a famous study done by a maker of street lighting equipment and the commercial power companies. They took a high crime area, they studied the crime in the area, then they put street lights up on even numbered streets and left the off numbered street without. After some time they then gathered the information and found that crime on the streets with lights was greatly reduced. After some effort as they did not initially publish it, it was found that crime rates on the streets that were not lit almost doubled, so there was no statically significant reduction in overall crime.
    The real conclusion to be drawn is that someone who wants to commit a crime will not be stopped by a light, but may move his crime away from the light.
    Another study proved that putting lighting on the freeways near the entrances exits and other high risk areas reduced he overall accident rates much better than lighting all the freeway. It is believed that the additional lighting helps wake people up and get their attention when they will need it most.
    By selectively reducing the lighting on our freeways, we could reduce accidents. Have we done it. Very little. People tend to believe more is always better so they want more, not better.
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

Which is yet another reason to keep as much as lit as possible.
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wrote:

    Better would be to assure that your neighbors are not lit.
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On Jan 7, 9:18am, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

If this is the level of logical thought our human race has been reduced to, I want out.
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wrote:

If this is the level of logical thought our human race has been reduced to, I want out.
How about this logic? If light reduces crime, why isn't crime, especially household robbery, substantially lower during the daylight hours?
TKM
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Some people are home during the day and report crimes, when robbed?
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wrote:

Well, yes. Around my urban area, about half the homes are occupied with people who work at home, retirees, etc. My home has been robbed twice in the last 30 years. Once it was a kid who took a bicycle from an open garage. I reported that right away and he was caught. The other was more serious and involved 3-4 people looking for small stuff to sell for drugs. They kicked in the back door and took whatever they could find and wrapped everything in pillow cases and sheets from our bed. They even went through the boxes in the attic. A neighbor saw them and called police. We got our stuff back; but the thieves were never caught.
Both robberies were in daylight and this, overall, is not a high-crime area.
TKM
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duh... It is.
s

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In article

Uh, I believe it is.
--
:)
JR

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In article
snipped-for-privacy@rochester.rr.com wrote:

Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here.
--
:)
JR

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take a empty car parking lot, your car may not have started after work, so you got a ride with a friend and left it till morning.
would you want the lights off, returning in the morning to a empty lot, car stolen? or prefer you car on blocks totally stripped?
********************************************************
I'd like to see the cost/benefit ratio on that. Many years ago my car was stripped in a parking lot. It was well lit and people were working inside at the time. The car was being junked anyway so it was no loss for me or my insurance company. OTOH, even if the loss was $2000, how many dollars are spent in the US to keep lights on in empty lots? Do we really need all of them on? How about a 75% reduction? .
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This is great. Was hoping to get ALL views of such an idea. Additional views are most welcome. Please.
Here; in addition to two or three street lights within view from this home in a smaller town not too far from a small city in North America we have the following for outside 'night' lighting. 1) One 50 watt 'long life' bulb over front door step. This mainly to ensure that there is a steady light in case someone does come to the door and for visiting neighbours who drop in for a chat and cup of tea. It also would satisfy an insurance requirement that we, as householder provide suitable lighting. The bulb is on for about ten to 12 hours per night (at this time of year). And is replaced every few years. It can be reached by standing on a chair. It can also be operated on/off via a key chain 'fob' similar to that used as car remote door opener. 2) Motion detector twin light fixture over garage door; it operates only after dusk and comes on when a person or vehicle is about half way up driveway. Presently adjusted to stay on for several minutes. Long enough to get groceries out of vehicle. 3) Similar motion detector on other end of house where there is some 8 to 10 feet clearance from fence and next house is some 50 feet away. This sometimes gets operated by a prowling cat or tree movement during heavy winds. 4) Two enclosed bulb fixtures 40 watters IIRC, on patio deck, operated by a switch located next to sliding glass doors to deck at rear of house. Occasionally operated, don't think have replaced a bulb in them for past 5 years.
There is very little activity either walking or vehicles after say 1.00 AM. With my existing lighting the street lights could be out I reckon. In fact if my motion detector lights came on in otherwise darkness it would signal neighbours opposite that something was moving around my house..
Oh by the way it is possible to, electrically, connect to the output wire of those motion sensors and via, say a low voltage transformer, operate a buzzer or even use the low voltage as input to my house alarm system.
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