Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)

[wilson.canadian]

Can someone please enlighten me:

I already have 100 amps and copper wire. The house is 55 years old.

Why should I upgrade from fuses to circuit breakers? (and spend $1000-$1500)

Thanks,

Wilson

[dave_bonnell]

What is prompting you to ask this question after 55 years? Breakers offer more convenience/safety than fuses. How often do you cut power to a circuit? How often do you blow a (literal) fuse? Does your setup meet local/national codes?

Personally, I would just grumble about it rather than spend the money to upgrade, unless it was costing me significant time/money or if it was required by law.

[scott21230]

If you are thinking about selling the house anytime soon, then get breakers. Also make sure that you get a panel that is big enough to accomidate any future circuits or other upgrades. Most likely if you have fuses you also have way too many things on the same circuit. I'm reasonably sure that fuses will turn off some buyers. I'm not sure if there are homeowners insurance ramifications to having fuses, but I know that they do ask which type you have.

[Pete C.]

I know when a friend bought a house a few years back that had 60A fuse service, his insurance company required him to upgrade it within six months. I gave him the service upgrade 101 course, he pulled the permit and did the job himself with no problems and at a cost of a few hundred dollars in materials.

Pete C.

[Bill]

Well if it works, don't fix it!

However if you are having problems with circuits being overloaded and fuses blowing, then you would need to replace the fuse panel with a breaker panel so you could add additional circuits. And when doing this work, it would need to be installed properly to code. If it is not installed to code and inspected, and there is a fire because of this, then your insurance company does not have to pay for damages!

Other than that, modern electrical wiring is more safe than old wiring. I prefer new up to code wiring in my house.

[dpb]

[e-mail] wrote: ...

...

I'm of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" persuasion.

So, unless one or more of several conditions exist, I don't see much, if any, point.

Is there any functional problem at present (that is, frequent overloads, flickering, etc., etc.)?

Do you have any intention/need to add more loads and lack circuit space to do so?

Is the wiring 2- or 3- wire (grounded, iow)? That age is on borderline to possible be either.

If not grounded, are the baths and kitchen on retrofit GFCI's? That is a possible "semi-real" consideration for safety. (Note to the bashers

-- I'm not saying there are potential benefits and that shouldn't use them, only that got along quite nicely for quite some time before they existed and as long as good condition and common-sense usage, lacking them now doesn't create an imminent hazard as some seem to think.)

Do you have any intention of trying to sell the house in the near future? This seems to have become a "hot button" issue w/ many inspectors/potential buyers for, mostly imo, no _real_ reasons other than "because". (For really old, 60A or other really low service, there is some reason and the saw of "insurance" is possibly valid, but otherwise I also think that it is _mostly_ a strawdog).

Is the condition of the panel and wiring and outlets, etc., still good as far as can be told?

Overall, have to consider all of the above as an overall evaluation of whether "it's time" or not and whether there's reason.

As others have noted, it is possible to do an upgrade individually, but unless one is pretty comfortable and understands what is involved in doing a proper job, this one is still probably best left to the pro's, even at the expense to the pocketbook if decide to go ahead.

[zxcvbob]

Where did you get the $1000+ figure? It shouldn't cost nearly that much to pull out a 100A panel and replace it with another 100A panel in the same location -- depending on the particulars, of course. Choose a new panel carefully so that it fits in the same spot and reuse all the existing wires.

I'd do a load analysis and see if 100A is adequate (if you have gas appliances, it probably is) I wouldn't rush to change out a properly installed and properly sized fuse box.

Bob

[CJT]

Why do you THINK you should?

I agree with the others -- if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

[CJT]

I think I'd find another insurer.

[Pete C.]

He tried a number of insurers, that was the only one that would write a policy. They were fine with everything but the electrical and at least they were willing to write a policy with that condition.

Certainly the upgrade project was no big deal and not expensive. As it was an upgrade was on his agenda anyway to properly support the basement wood shop, it was just on a faster timetable due to the insurance issue.

Pete C.

[hallerb]

Insurance safety and resale value.

whats the overall condition of the service entrance cable? fuses are regarded by home inspectors and insurance and mortage companies to be inferior to breakers, and there are no arc fault fuses for bedroom and other circuits.

have any old K&T in your home? how many fuses do you have and how many for expansion? just a upgraded kitchen takes about 7 to meet current code with all the common appliances.

Why do people think you paint every 7 years but assume wiring should last FOREVER?

[scott21230]

I know insurance might make them do it, but personally I'd trust 55 year old fuses over 55 year old breakers.

[dpb]

Primarily because paint is exposed to the air and dirty hands of kiddies, sunlight for UV fading, etc., etc., etc., and so suffers direct damage that needs repair. Wiring, otoh, sits there undisturbed in the dark doing nothing and has very little, if any, reason for needing renewing unless disturbed or other factors cause need for it.

K&T in a 1950's-built house???? Aww, come off it. K&T went out at least 20 years before then... :(

The questions of present service adequacy are ok, but unless there's expansion on the horizon or an existing indication of overloading, so what about expandability? It's not an issue until there is an issue.

Same thing w/ insurance and/or resale. If no plans, no problem. His premiums undoubtedly will not be reduced if makes the change.

[Tom The Great]

imho:

Contact your insurance company, you might find they charge you a little extra since you have fuses. Also check with your accountant if there are any rebate, or tax benifits to upgrading your homes equipment.

Just some ideas.....

tom @

[hallerb]

Main service entrance cables detoriate, fuse boxes rust, fuse blocks detoriate, stuff getws overloaded and often needd upgrades are put off. Lots of stuff like fridges and freezers should be on a dedicated breaker

NOT in all areas of the country

had a friend whos insurance company got sold, new insurance company demanded he rebuild his porch and upgrade his wiring, and fix sidewalks and add handrails to steps.

I think its better to keep up with troubles than wait and have a monumental bill at one inconvenient time

[gfretwell]

That is the real point. Fuses are a whole lot safer than breakers, all else being equal. Fuses always fail "open". Breakers can fail shorted. Take a look at the CPSC articles on Federal Pacific. If you have a capacity problem and you are blowing fuses you may need better load balancing or an upgrade but if you are not blowing, properly sized fuses, I do not see the problem. I can't imagine any insurance company refusing insurance on a home with fuses and type S adapters (that prevent overfusing) since it is code legal in the NEC

2005 to install that panel in a new house today.

[Pete C.]

In case you haven't noticed, insurance companies pay no attention to accepted codes and just make whatever arbitrary rules they want to, with no government agency stepping in to correct their overreaching.

Pete C.

[CJT]

Then why don't we see people here recommending changing breaker boxes after 20 years?

[Pete C.]

I don't know, but I have personally read insurance documents noting higher premiums for electrical older than 30 years regardless of the type.

Pete C.

[dpb]

I've yet to see the first, the second indicates a moisture problem, haven't any reason to think the third is an issue for OP. Certainly have 50- and 60-yr old boxes here that don't show any signs of any of these problems. At worst, there's some cosmetic rust and faded paint.

The rest is a possible issue which I addressed and don't disagree, but again, unless there is a problem, there is no problem. Changing for change's sake is totally unnecessary.

I'd think you would be hard pressed to find a house built in the 50s w/ K&T. Don't say there might not have been a few, but I suspect it would have been _very_ few. Remember, that was the era of post-WWII and Korea when the GI housing boom was at its peak and virtually anything and everything possible to speed up construction was being done. K&T ain't on that list.

You're free to make your choices, of course. Don't think your recommendations (and most especially, over-generalizations) are necessarily valid for others, however.

As for the one incident w/ a friend, those items other than wiring could well have been immediate safety hazards and possibly a good idea to limit liability. Can't comment on the wiring of course, nothing about it is given to even form the wildest conjecture. But then again, this friend might have just gone to another insurance company and had no problem continuing on as he was...