Why does Analog Multimeter need AAA Batery

The "diode and resistor" have been replaced by a "charge pump" (you can google this) for the reason of "why waste power in that resistor." This is not a bait and switch, it is merely an improvement on an earlier proposal.

If you remove the battery from Nick's charge pump circuit proposal, you have what's commonly called a "voltage doubler" (you can google this) and the open-circuit output voltage will peak at twice the AC input amplitude, which would be 340V for "normal" 120VAC-RMS input. Limiting the size of the capacitor limits the current output capability. Placing a battery across the output limits the output voltage by shunting the current flowing through the capacitor. Also remember the current=C*dV/dt, and dV/dt peaks at 170volts/sec. So to reiterate, current and voltage have been limited: as long as the battery is there and can accept the current, you do not have 60V, 120V, 340V or whatever, you have 1.5V regulated by the battery and no additional regulator is necessary.

I would modify this design by replacing the diode whose anode connects to ground with a zener rated for 2.5 to 5 volts. That way, if the battery should open-circuit, the downstream components won't see the

370V spike, it having been shunted by the zener. Similar "transformerless stepdown" circuits are used to supply regulated 12VDC to motion detectors.

I think Nick was off in his original math because he may not have considered that the output diode (the one with the cathode connected to the battery) begins conducting roughly as the AC input wave rises from its -170V minimum, and continues to conduct roughly till the input reaches its 170V maximum (we're ignoring .6V and 1.5V voltage drops across diodes and batteries as insignificant compared to 170V). Therefore the total charge moved per cycle is Q=C*340volts over the full voltage swing of -170 to +170. (I now see and agree with his math ammended in a subsequent post.) Current in amps (coulombs per second) is Q*60 because there are 60 cycles per second. Substituting the suggested value of .0047 uF for C, and current comes out to be 96 microamps. This is not meant to recharge a battery that has been run flat, but rather to compensate for the self-discharge of the battery such that it does not discharge during storage.

The question of whether the negative terminal of the battery is connected to an identifiable "common" node in the VOM's internal circuit is left for further consideration.

%mod%

Reply to
modervador
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On 2005-03-01 snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com said: >Newsgroups: alt.home.repair,alt.energy.homepower > snipped-for-privacy@sny.der.on.ca wrote: [snip] > ... The really cheap meters will say something like 2 Kohm / >volt or 3 K ohm / volt on the face. A better quality one will say >something like 20K ohm / volt. These ratings are usually based on 1 >milliamp giving full scale deflection of the needle. No, not 1 mA.

2 Kohm/volt = .5 mA 3 Kohm/volt = .33 mA 20 Kohm/volt = 50 microAmps [snip] >Getting my first Field Effect Transistor powered meter was a reall >blessing. It had something like 2 MEG ohms / volt sensitivity. Most >of the digital stuff now probably has 10 or 20 Meg ohms / volt. No, not "per volt". That's the input resistance for DC measurements.

My Beckman 3020 DMM is 22 megohms input resistance.

Fluke 27 and 73 read 11 megs on the Beckman Fluke 36 DMM and clamp-on AC/DC ammeter reads 2 megs.

Tom Willmon near Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Registered

Reply to
twillmon

Good idea. Two caps in series might also help with single point failures.

UL-approved, in plastic boxes. I've heard California is banning the transformer ilk because of the standby power.

That's only a problem for alt.home.repair nitwits, IMO :-)

Nick

Reply to
nicksanspam

You forget that there are different scales on the meter face. Full scale deflection on one scale may be reading 250 volts and 10 volts on another. The meter movement HAS to see the same amperage in order to get fullscale deflection. The amount of resistance you have to add will, of course, vary with each scale, but at no time can the current EXCEED the 1 ma (or whatever) at full scale.

You are right. I had ohms per volt on the brain from the previous paragraph. I was just trying to show how much less circuit loading there was with a vtvm (or FET) type of meter.

please, shoot me now...

mike

Reply to
m II

On 2005-03-02 d02mgt$hj8$ snipped-for-privacy@reader2.nmix.net said: >Newsgroups: alt.home.repair,alt.energy.homepower > snipped-for-privacy@cybermesa.net wrote: >> > ... The really cheap meters will say something like 2 Kohm / >> >volt or 3 K ohm / volt on the face. A better quality one will >>say >something like 20K ohm / volt. These ratings are usually >>based on 1 >milliamp giving full scale deflection of the >needle. >> No, not 1 mA. >> 2 Kohm/volt = .5 mA >> 3 Kohm/volt = .33 mA >> 20 Kohm/volt = 50 microAmps >You forget that there are different scales on the meter face. No I didn't. Unless my simple, ohm's law calculations were wrong, meter movement sensitivity is 1 / ohms per volt. To set measuring range of meter you select a multiplier resistor which supplies full scale meter current at your desired full scale voltage.

A 1Kohms/volt meter would use 10K to read 10V full scale. A 20Kohms/volt would need 200K for the same range.

Full >scale deflection on one scale may be reading 250 volts and 10 volts >on another. The meter movement HAS to see the same amperage in >order to get fullscale deflection. The amount of resistance you >have to add will, of course, vary with each scale, Yup. >but at no time >can the current EXCEED the 1 ma (or whatever) at full >scale. Huh? Sorry, not clear to me what your point is here. [snip]

Cheers.

Tom Willmon near Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Registered

Reply to
twillmon

I thought I had said something similar to that, in my own, obviously unclear manner. We're stuck with the designed current rating of the meter, however, so we can't vary the current for full deflection, Your formula is therefore better stated as R = V/1ma, that is supposing a 1ma movement, as before. R is the resistance needed to allow the needle to move all the way over on that particular V scale.

Yes...and 10K and 200K ohms on the 100V scale.

Ah well..sorry for any misunderstanding I may have caused/engendered/espoused/advocated or just plain originated.

mike

Reply to
m II

In alt.home.repair on Sat, 26 Feb 2005 03:10:30 -0330 "Terry" posted:

One thing is allowing you to watch a capacitor charge. Eventually the needle reaches the resistance of the circuit, not counting the capacitance.

Meirman

-- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

Reply to
meirman

***** Sentenced to 2-4 years in a dry cell.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Wisnia

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