Why do I need an electrical box?

[Jack Hammer]

Because it was found that fires start from sparks of two wires poorly connected. So the box contains the fire. Do you want your house to act as a box?

[Roy]

Is your computer clock set for the correct time? =3D=3D

[Dean Hoffman]

The box cover also has to be accessible if I remember correctly. There is always the possibility of a bad splice. How would you find a bad connection behind drywall or paneling?

[aemeijers]

All right, I'll feed the troll a little (just in case some newbies on here take him seriously)-

Or to put it another way- a box made out of something other than kindling material. I found a connection like OP is proposing inside my bathroom wall when I was cleaning up the wiring, and raising the mirror cabinet to a height where I could actually see myself in it. The feed to the original between-the-studs cabinet had been extended with a butt splice and electrical tape (just floating in the wall), to feed the lights above the cabinet and the ungrounded GFCI below it. I clipped off that feed and abandoned it, and fished a new (grounded) wire to the expanded J-box in the attic.

What I put in probably ain't code, strictly speaking (since I borrowed unswitched power from an outlet in the bedroom next door to power the gfci) , but it is a hell of a lot safer than what I ripped out. And the wire nuts in the attic box are actually screwed on, and there is a lid on the box now. (The electrician I hired to do an inspection obviously never went in the attic- the connections were fanned out in the air above the single-layer octagon box, with the wirenuts just loosely engaged. I touched the rats nest, and several of the nuts went sproing, off into the insulation somewhere. No romex clamps on anything, the wire was just stuffed through the knockouts.)

-- aem sends...

[mike___f]

According to the electrical code. I must use a box when I connect wires. Well, why do I need a small metal or plastic box just to place a few wirenuts where two wires connect? A house IS A BOX. Any building IS A BOX. The house or other building is a box in itself. Therefore, any connection I make on wires contained inside of any building, IS IN A BOX, and complies with the requirement to put wiring connections inside of a box.

MoF

[mm]

Do you want to be in the smae box as the fire?

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, Troll If you stay out of your house, you don't need an electrical box.

[pocketrocket]

If the box is a metal one, I can see where it may contain a fire, but plastic boxes will add to any fire. Plastic burns. From having burned plastic bottles and other plastics in my outdoor burn barrel, I know how fast and hot plastic burns. I'd guess that plastic burns hotter than wood. So, requiring a PLASTIC box is just useless nonsense when it comes to containing a fire. It's just an outdated code rule which no longer serves any purpose, ever since they allowed plastic boxes.

On the other hand, a metal box might contain a fire for a short time. Of course with modern cable being made with a plastic jacket, the fire will quickly spread outward as the cable jacket burns. I recall when both the boxes were metal and the cable was covered with a spiral metal housing (BX), or the wires were in metal pipe/conduit. That's when wiring was really safe. These plastic jacketed cables and plastic boxes are a joke. If sparks fly the plastic will ignite and burn faster than the wood around them.

I do agree that splices inside a wall are a bad idea because they can not be located in the event that a connection becomes loose. Therefore a box does offer a place to look for a bad connection. But as far as preventing a fire, plastic boxes do nothing to stop a fire, and actually add fuel to the fire. Personally, I have never purchased or used a plastic box in my home, and I never will, I use metal boxes for everything. About the only safe use for plastic boses is for installing networking cables, phone wiring, or other low voltage low current wires. In these cases they are not required by code, but they do help keep the insulation away from wires, makes wiring easier, and keep cold air from entering the home. This should be the ONLY thing they are allowed for.

PR

[TimR]

While it may sound like a troll, one part of this question is valid.

Is a plastic box equally safe as a metal one? (or are both so safe the difference doesn't matter?)

[John Grabowski]

*I do not think so. I have seen plastic boxes deform as a result of heat from arcing connections. They also melt from fire. A few months ago I got a call about a bad electric dryer receptacle. There was a loose connection on the receptacle which caused arcing. The heat generated from the arcing melted the plastic surrounding one prong of the dryer cord and one side of the plastic electrical box was charred ash.

[HeyBub]

Nope. Consider possibly the oldest of "plastic": "Bakelite." Bakelite is "thermo-setting" meaning the hotter it gets, the more the molecules hook together. As some heat point, a Bakelite ashtray becomes one giant molecule! As such, Bakelite cannot burn. If heated enough, it will char and decompose, but it will not burn. That's exactly WHY it is used as electrical boxes, distributor rotors, and electrical plugs.

At the other end of the spectrum are polystyrene packing peanuts. They won't burn either - at least they won't support comubsion. They will melt and some of the impurities will flame up but as soon as the igniting flame is removed they wink out.

Jeeze! Wire insulation (most) won't burn either. UL certification won't allow it.

Sniff. Your loss. All commercial, plastic, junction boxes are UL rated and must pass the ul94 5v test. This test specifies that an applied flame must NOT generate a self-sustaining fire and no smoldering or burning material may fall from the test item.

All that said, do you REALLY believe the nannies in federal, state, and local governments would allow the sale of these things if there were ANY way they could ban them for the sake of the children?

[Doug Miller]

You're obviously unaware that the plastic used for electrical boxes is fire-retardant.

Here, learn something:

[Red Green]

mike__ [e-mail] wrote in news:n073q5548m3trlkmkp0vl2lllb7vqlpogq@

4ax.com:

Dear Troll:

You need to sell that to the electrical or home inspctor. Not anyone here. Good luck.

p.s. You will lose.

p.p.s. The earth is not a box. That's why you need a box.

[RonB]

Good Lord! A box and cover can be bought for less than $1. Why burn you house down over a buck!!!!

RonB

[hibb]

That's what I was thinking. I don't know electrical codes but I thought that a splice has to be in a box and also should not be hidden behind a wall.

[RonB]

Hmmmmm.....Me thinks we have been trolled!

[John Gilmer]

thought that a splice has to be in a box and also should not be hidden behind a wall.

I haven't used it, but I understand that there is an "approved" splice that can be "hidden" as in not accessible.

I picked up two of them (one for 2 wire + ground, the other for 3 wires + ground) but haven't used them.

I don't know what the NEC says about these but the UL folks don't seem to have any problem.

[Colbyt]

How about a link?

I would love to see this product.

[Phisherman]

You must use an accessible box if you want to follow the NEC (and most other codes). They are very inexpensive, with a cover, about $2.

[RBM]

Having seen the results of bad connections causing serious overheating and fire inside of plastic boxes, I can assure you that they contain it well. Although the plastic will eventually melt if the circuit is not broken, I believe that in many respects they are safer than metal. They don't transfer the heat through the plastic, and tend to have fewer openings in them to allow sparks, and flame to escape, which also helps prevent the fire from breathing. Secondarily, if you nick a conductor on a steel box, it will ground. Not so on a plastic box.