Whole house "battery" wiring/power...

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On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:54:42 -0700, Archimedes' Lever

"Usually" has nothing to do with it, DimBulb. The word was used correctly. You were wrong again, AlwaysWrong.

Synonyms, noting more or less.
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On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:11:23 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Around 2002 I found a wonderful mid-sized mercury arc recifier in use still for the tram system at the MOTAT museum in Auckland, NZ - it might still be operational there. Fascinating to watch it run, and the brightness change according to load as the trams moved around.
I'm sure there are still some running in other countries, too, but that's the only one I've seen over the years (although various museums have ones that aren't hooked up - I don't know how many of those are still technically OK and could be made to run).
There may still be a few tucked away in buildings with really old DC elevators, although there can't be many left now that haven't been updated.
cheers
Jules
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On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:11:30 -0500, Jules

I do not think there have been DC elevators in the US since the late Thirties.
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On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 16:20:38 -0700, Archimedes' Lever

AlwaysWrong strikes again.
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid /11/16/225213 http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/off-goes-the-power-current-started-by-thomas-edison /
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"Still in use", and "Still being manufactured" are two different things, dipshit. Show me a modern nameplate date. Case closed.
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On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:02:34 -0700, Archimedes' Lever

Existed = have been. You said nothing about being manufactured, DimBulb. You implied that they didn't exist.
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Good thing that you are the only one that used the word. I never said anything about "existed". Though it is a shame that you do.
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On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:56:02 -0700, Archimedes' Lever

You really are a dim bulb, DimBulb. You said: "I do not think there have been DC elevators in the US since the late Thirties". The fact is that there _have_been_ (i.e. existed) DC elevators as recently as 2007. In fact they are likely still there, though the conversion would now be done on-premises.
In short, AlwaysWrong, you're wrong again.
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THIS DOES'NT MAKE MUCH SENSE
IT IS DOABLE BUT WHY ? I AM PROTEUS
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In my case, basically for higher reliability of some electronic gizmos. Also to have pretty much maintenance free electronic gizmos so far as battery replacement goes.
I live in a rural area and the electricity goes out at least twice a month...
And I've had problems with phone answering machines which need to have the time reset each time the power goes out. Or other models the batteries wear out quickly during a power outage. So my phone answering machine needs constant attention!
Then I have about 7 battery operated clocks (due to power outages), 6 battery electronic thermometers for temperature monitoring because I have a wood stove and want to keep an eye on the temperatures when I am in other rooms of the house, then about 6 battery smoke detectors / CO detectors everywhere (again for wood stove monitoring).
Basically I frequently need to replace a battery in something. It would be nice to have just one central battery and not worry about it except once every several years!
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Are you sure? Mine will re-set on the first incoming call.
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On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 04:35:59 -0700, "Bill"
[snip]

New ones usually support caller ID. With that, the time is set automatically with each call.
[snip]
--
83 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
  Click to see the full signature.
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Many items in the home can run off of DC; some can't. The big problem with DC systems is excessive current draw and the corresponding voltage drop. In order to use existing house wiring (12 and 14 ga), the DC voltage would have to be much higher than 48V. At 48 volts the current draw for any AC device would be more than double. Watts volts times amps. If your toaster draws 1000W and your voltage supply s 48VDC, then you need over 20 amps to run the toaster. Standard outlets are rated for 15A. Then theres the problem of motors (fans, heater blower, refrigerator compressor, jacuzzi pump, etc). An AC motor can not work on DC. However, many motors in the home are what are called "universal" motors. These motors work for AC and DC. Most power tools and small kitchen appliances use universal motors. For example, a coffee grinder will run on DC, although it needs about 40-50V to get started.
And yet there is another problem of electric generation, and that's another can of worms altogether. 100 years ago this country struggled over the AC/DC concept for the electrical grid. Edison was a proponent of the DC system, and Westinghouse was a proponent of the AC system. There's a great book called "The Empires of Light" which describes the technological and political wars related to this struggle.
Having said all this, if I lived in a rural area, far from services, I would have a DC battery storage system in my house/garage.
AG
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Andy wrote:

At last someone who gets it. There have been others critical of a separate DC power system and they have good point about why you should not reinvent the wheel. Inverter technology has come a long way in recent years and what would you think of a central high capacity inverter coming off your battery bank. Many of the backup generator systems I've installed over the years have not been designed to take care of the whole electrical load of a home or business but to supply power to the essentials through a transfer switch and sub-panel. The same thing can be done with an inverter system. By the way, Tesla is more of a hero to me than Edison. I think Edison just had a better publicity machine.
TDD
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

You just reinvented the wheel. Battery storage with an inverter (or inverter/charger if a generator is used) to supply normal voltage/frequency AC is a pretty common method for off grid installations.
Many of the

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George wrote:

The only systems I've had experience with were in the 5-8kw range for computer operations in a commercial environment. A big central UPS with generator backup. If I lived in a rural environment I'm sure the mad scientist in me would emerge again and I would have to get involved in something for a home. The only problem is that I would revert to my childhood on the farm and start looking for things to blow up.
TDD
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wrote:

It is a catch 22 situation, you need some current draw for the current detection sensor. Or you could use a local ni-cad AA battery and have something that is completey disconnected when the device is unplugged or turned off, battery charges whenever primary is in connected mode. Need detection circuit would be powered by the AA ni-cad battery when the primary is disconnected. Additionally a mechanical switch can be incorporated to detect when none of the LV outputs physically have a plug in any jack, then the primary could be switched off. Such a system would be smart enough to save energy and provide LV power supplies throughout a home at various voltages. A special J box would eliminate bulky wall warts that dont fit into power strips, etc. Manufacturers would supply standardized DC "line cords" and make the wall wart an optional item when buying a product if your home/office has DC equipped outlets. I must have at least 8 or 10 wall warts behind my computer desk right now, they are a PIA.
The centralized system described will be drawing several amp-hours a day just to keep the storage battery charged and it would have no local control to actually save transformer idle consumption when things are switched off or unplugged.
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On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 10:58:38 -0700 (PDT), windcrest

Use a satellite system then. Instead of a central DC battery "park".
Place a "Battery Station" on each branch, and charge each only at night, when you are on off-peak rates. Rare daytime occasions are needed where the charging circuit needs to be on during a particular device's load duty. Run the fridge and the Air on AC still, and run the low consumption branches on their respective DC satellites, where the battery capacity for that branch relates to the loading your have set up on that branch. Adding loads may mean increasing a given satellite's battery station capacity and a change to the charge/run software (of course).
This is an extension of my Hot Water On Demand system for only charging the battery packs at night during off-peak hours, which do get monitored on industrial customers. Far more efficient than AC Burns Watts On Demand system that uses the most expensive AC power there is... Peak Hour Usage.
Such a system would work in a household, but it would require acceptance and implementation across a few industries to get the maximum possible benefit from the idea. Otherwise, it ends up being a high cost personal hobby.
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On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 04:35:59 -0700, "Bill"

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com /
http://www.thomasdistributing.com /
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Bill wrote:

http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com/estore/popup_image.php?pIDG&osCsid e4daf8d5319ed8efaa7a77410624ea
You can consolidate a lot of it for a good start. For example in our house we have an alarm panel which powers all of the smoke and CO alarms and of course the security system.
What does a phone answering machine do?
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