Who makes the best Kill-A-Watt meter

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It's not all computer related. I used newsxpress reader most of my Internet days. It did not archive posts. If the info was not in the repost, I had no idea sometimes what they were talking about. Then I would have to take time and search google archives, and often posting there at the same time. It seems some newsgroups, tend to criticize long postings. I could care less.
Wait, I'm changing my tv channel with this iPad.
Greg
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Oh, I forgot about Using Pine reader. You just use telnet.
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On 4/11/2012 7:57 PM, gregz wrote:

>> On 4/11/2012 2:39 PM, gregz wrote:
>>>> On 4/11/2012 12:23 PM, Doug wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/10/2012 11:08 AM, snipped-for-privacy@toyotamail.com wrote: >>>>>>> Another thread on here mentions using a Kill-A-Watt meter to test the >>>>>>> power usage of a freezer (or anything else). I'm considering buying one >>>>>>> of these. I'm sure there are many brands available. I want something >>>>>>> that's functional, durable, and has the most *useful* options. Yet cost >>>>>>> is a factor too. I generally wont buy the cheapest one, but dont want >>>>>>> to spend a fortune on it either. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've never used one of these, but the way I understand it, they are >>>>>>> plugged into an outlet and the appliance plugged into the meter. >>>>>>> However, what if I want to monitor the power usage in (example), my >>>>>>> garage/workshop. Can this be done? Or what if I want to monitor total >>>>>>> power usage in my home, going across the Mains. I suppose some wiring >>>>>>> would be required, (which is no problem for me). Another consideration, >>>>>>> are they only made for 120V, or can they be used for 240V such as a >>>>>>> dryer, elec range, or a welder? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Which brands do what? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please include the BRAND NAME and MODEL. Then list their FEATURES, >>>>>>> PRICE, and the STORE or ONLINE place that sells them. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I've messed with this a LOT. >>>>>> First thing to ask yourself is, "what am I trying to accomplish?" >>>>>> It's unproductive to ask a question if you're not gonna do anything >>>>>> with the answer. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want to save money, you already know how to do that. >>>>>> Just use less of everything. >>>>>> It costs half as much to shower every other day. But are you going >>>>>> to shower every third day based on the reading on your meter? >>>>>> A bucket, stopwatch and a thermometer will give you all the tools >>>>>> you need to calculate what a shower is costing you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you going to raise the internal temperature of your fridge? >>>>>> Are you gonna forgo that cold can of pop 'cause it costs you $.0002 >>>>>> to open the fridge door? >>>>>> Are you going to drink cold coffee or quit toasting your bagel? >>>>>> If your welds are too strong, weld faster. >>>>>> If you have electric rates that differ over the course of a day, >>>>>> you can wash clothes at 4AM. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bottom line is that we use as little as we can stand. Using less >>>>>> is not practical or we'd be doing it. >>>>>> >>>>>> But, it is fun to look at the numbers. Some may surprise you and >>>>>> need to be dealt with. I'd vote against long-term monitoring. It's >>>>>> not worth the expense, 'cause you're not likely to pay any attention >>>>>> after the first month. The wife is gonna' suggest that bathing more >>>>>> often might help your love life...and you know what you're gonna do. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Kill-A-Watt measures Watts and Volt-amps. Watts is what most >>>>>> utilities charge for. It's great for learning how much money your >>>>>> cable box is costing you in electricity. But, again, are you gonna >>>>>> unplug the cable box that's costing you $50/month to save a buck in >>>>>> electricity? >>>>>> >>>>>> They are marketed under several brand names. Google will find 'em for you. >>>>>> If google doesn't know, you won't likely find it for sale anyway. >>>>>> I paid $2 for mine at a garage sale. If I add up all the electricity >>>>>> I saved using it, I think it'll be sometime in 2015 by the time I get >>>>>> my $2 back. >>>>>> >>>>>> A clamp-on amp meter is a useful tool for 240V devices. >>>>>> It has no knowledge of power factor, so you'll only read volt-amps. >>>>>> But the water heater, stove, the heater part of an electric dryer all >>>>>> have a power factor of 1, so watts == volt-amps. >>>>>> Isn't gonna help much with your welder, or CFL lamps, or motors. >>>>>> >>>>>> The simplest thing to do is use the utility meter on the house. >>>>>> You're monitoring exactly what you're being billed for. >>>>>> A stopwatch to measure how fast the wheel goes around as you turn stuff >>>>>> on/off will tell you exactly what you're paying for. >>>>>> Once you get the number, it probably won't change much. Then, all you >>>>>> need is to time how long it runs. An electric clock on the load side of >>>>>> the switch will tell you that. Shorter showers make the water heater >>>>>> run less. But you didn't need ANY measurements to know that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Blue-Line Innovations distributes a device that clamps on the utility >>>>>> meter and watches the disk go around. Transmits wirelessly to the >>>>>> readout. They also have a computer interface. >>>>>> I got mine for cheap at a garage sale. I wouldn't pay the retail price >>>>>> for one. Again, marketed by several vendors. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have a digital utility meter, it likely has an infrared light >>>>>> that blinks. Mine blinks once for every watt-hour of use. >>>>>> I wrote a little program that runs on a Palm III. Point the IR sensor >>>>>> at the meter and it graphs usage. Kinda interesting to watch the >>>>>> water heater go on and off. Pretty soon, you recognize the power >>>>>> signature of the water heater, microwave, furnace, etc. >>>>>> I was so fascinated that it took over a week to become bored. >>>>>> >>>>>> While I was at it, I hooked up a switch with a flapper over the vent to log >>>>>> the run-time of the gas furnace. Guess what...turning down >>>>>> the thermostat saves money. >>>>>> >>>>>> One thing you will discover is how much power is wasted by stuff >>>>>> that's turned off. Common term is "vampire" devices. >>>>>> I could save about 35Watts of wasted power 24/7 by turning off >>>>>> all the devices related to watching TV. So, I put in a power >>>>>> strip and switch it off when not in use. >>>>>> Every time I wanted to watch TV, I had to turn on the power, >>>>>> reprogram the clock on two VCR's, wait for the devices to boot >>>>>> and figure out what they are...then I could watch TV. That lasted >>>>>> about a week. >>>>>> >>>>>> IF I took all the time I've spent on measuring stuff and spent it >>>>>> working at minimum wage, the money I'd earned would more than pay for >>>>>> all the energy I'm ever gonna save over using common sense. >>>>>> >>>>>> Conservation is a good thing. Use as little as possible, but no less. >>>>>> You don't need much real-time data to do that. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yesterday I was thinking of buying this K-A-W meter but I began to >>>>> realize, I'm not going to change anything even after I see the meter's >>>>> results so why bother getting one. I mean I always try to save >>>>> electricity in my home using age old advice so I probably have little >>>>> practical reason for this device except for the fun factor. I'm old >>>>> enough to know by now how to save electricity without the meter and as >>>>> you pointed out, saving electricity in some cases isn't always >>>>> practical. >>>> A lot depends on you. I am a retired engineer. Actually, engineers >>>> never retire, we only bug our spouses with engineering-type stuff all >>>> over the house. I've had my Kill-A-Watt for about 5 years now and >>>> probably use it once a month, on average for generally testing, etc. I >>>> also had a voltage problem where the power company was jacking up the >>>> voltage, apparently to relieve low voltage problems in other parts of our >>>> local grid. I was up to 126 volts and sometimes higher. It did cause >>>> problems with at lease one piece of electronic equipment in my house. >>>> When I called them and gave them the results, they initially brushed me >>>> off. But when I got to talk to an engineer, he was interested. They >>>> called me back about 1/2 hour later and said the problem was theirs and >>>> it would be fixed immediately. I actually watched the voltage go down >>>> about an hour later. >>> >>> How would they do that ??? >>> >>> Greg >> I don't know, but it involved going to some site, probably a substation. >> BTW, the voltage, after they corrected it, was about 112 ... sometimes >> lower sometimes a little bit higher. However, over the months that >> follow, it has crept up to about 120 on average. I don't know if it goes >> at high as before (126 or higher) because I changed out the piece of >> electronic equipment that seemed to be responding to the problem. It was >> a set of computer speakers. I could duplicate the problem on the bench >> with a Variac. When the voltage would go to about 125, the speakers >> would start buzzing. I have several pairs of these speakers and all >> exhibit the same problem. So, I changed out the wallwart to a different >> 12 volt wallwart. Now those speakers have no problem. > > I currently have about 122 volts. Where I used to work, 125 was the norm. > > Greg On 4/11/2012 7:57 PM, gregz wrote:
>> On 4/11/2012 2:39 PM, gregz wrote:
>>>> On 4/11/2012 12:23 PM, Doug wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/10/2012 11:08 AM, snipped-for-privacy@toyotamail.com wrote: >>>>>>> Another thread on here mentions using a Kill-A-Watt meter to test the >>>>>>> power usage of a freezer (or anything else). I'm considering buying one >>>>>>> of these. I'm sure there are many brands available. I want something >>>>>>> that's functional, durable, and has the most *useful* options. Yet cost >>>>>>> is a factor too. I generally wont buy the cheapest one, but dont want >>>>>>> to spend a fortune on it either. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've never used one of these, but the way I understand it, they are >>>>>>> plugged into an outlet and the appliance plugged into the meter. >>>>>>> However, what if I want to monitor the power usage in (example), my >>>>>>> garage/workshop. Can this be done? Or what if I want to monitor total >>>>>>> power usage in my home, going across the Mains. I suppose some wiring >>>>>>> would be required, (which is no problem for me). Another consideration, >>>>>>> are they only made for 120V, or can they be used for 240V such as a >>>>>>> dryer, elec range, or a welder? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Which brands do what? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please include the BRAND NAME and MODEL. Then list their FEATURES, >>>>>>> PRICE, and the STORE or ONLINE place that sells them. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I've messed with this a LOT. >>>>>> First thing to ask yourself is, "what am I trying to accomplish?" >>>>>> It's unproductive to ask a question if you're not gonna do anything >>>>>> with the answer. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want to save money, you already know how to do that. >>>>>> Just use less of everything. >>>>>> It costs half as much to shower every other day. But are you going >>>>>> to shower every third day based on the reading on your meter? >>>>>> A bucket, stopwatch and a thermometer will give you all the tools >>>>>> you need to calculate what a shower is costing you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you going to raise the internal temperature of your fridge? >>>>>> Are you gonna forgo that cold can of pop 'cause it costs you $.0002 >>>>>> to open the fridge door? >>>>>> Are you going to drink cold coffee or quit toasting your bagel? >>>>>> If your welds are too strong, weld faster. >>>>>> If you have electric rates that differ over the course of a day, >>>>>> you can wash clothes at 4AM. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bottom line is that we use as little as we can stand. Using less >>>>>> is not practical or we'd be doing it. >>>>>> >>>>>> But, it is fun to look at the numbers. Some may surprise you and >>>>>> need to be dealt with. I'd vote against long-term monitoring. It's >>>>>> not worth the expense, 'cause you're not likely to pay any attention >>>>>> after the first month. The wife is gonna' suggest that bathing more >>>>>> often might help your love life...and you know what you're gonna do. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Kill-A-Watt measures Watts and Volt-amps. Watts is what most >>>>>> utilities charge for. It's great for learning how much money your >>>>>> cable box is costing you in electricity. But, again, are you gonna >>>>>> unplug the cable box that's costing you $50/month to save a buck in >>>>>> electricity? >>>>>> >>>>>> They are marketed under several brand names. Google will find 'em for you. >>>>>> If google doesn't know, you won't likely find it for sale anyway. >>>>>> I paid $2 for mine at a garage sale. If I add up all the electricity >>>>>> I saved using it, I think it'll be sometime in 2015 by the time I get >>>>>> my $2 back. >>>>>> >>>>>> A clamp-on amp meter is a useful tool for 240V devices. >>>>>> It has no knowledge of power factor, so you'll only read volt-amps. >>>>>> But the water heater, stove, the heater part of an electric dryer all >>>>>> have a power factor of 1, so watts == volt-amps. >>>>>> Isn't gonna help much with your welder, or CFL lamps, or motors. >>>>>> >>>>>> The simplest thing to do is use the utility meter on the house. >>>>>> You're monitoring exactly what you're being billed for. >>>>>> A stopwatch to measure how fast the wheel goes around as you turn stuff >>>>>> on/off will tell you exactly what you're paying for. >>>>>> Once you get the number, it probably won't change much. Then, all you >>>>>> need is to time how long it runs. An electric clock on the load side of >>>>>> the switch will tell you that. Shorter showers make the water heater >>>>>> run less. But you didn't need ANY measurements to know that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Blue-Line Innovations distributes a device that clamps on the utility >>>>>> meter and watches the disk go around. Transmits wirelessly to the >>>>>> readout. They also have a computer interface. >>>>>> I got mine for cheap at a garage sale. I wouldn't pay the retail price >>>>>> for one. Again, marketed by several vendors. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have a digital utility meter, it likely has an infrared light >>>>>> that blinks. Mine blinks once for every watt-hour of use. >>>>>> I wrote a little program that runs on a Palm III. Point the IR sensor >>>>>> at the meter and it graphs usage. Kinda interesting to watch the >>>>>> water heater go on and off. Pretty soon, you recognize the power >>>>>> signature of the water heater, microwave, furnace, etc. >>>>>> I was so fascinated that it took over a week to become bored. >>>>>> >>>>>> While I was at it, I hooked up a switch with a flapper over the vent to log >>>>>> the run-time of the gas furnace. Guess what...turning down >>>>>> the thermostat saves money. >>>>>> >>>>>> One thing you will discover is how much power is wasted by stuff >>>>>> that's turned off. Common term is "vampire" devices. >>>>>> I could save about 35Watts of wasted power 24/7 by turning off >>>>>> all the devices related to watching TV. So, I put in a power >>>>>> strip and switch it off when not in use. >>>>>> Every time I wanted to watch TV, I had to turn on the power, >>>>>> reprogram the clock on two VCR's, wait for the devices to boot >>>>>> and figure out what they are...then I could watch TV. That lasted >>>>>> about a week. >>>>>> >>>>>> IF I took all the time I've spent on measuring stuff and spent it >>>>>> working at minimum wage, the money I'd earned would more than pay for >>>>>> all the energy I'm ever gonna save over using common sense. >>>>>> >>>>>> Conservation is a good thing. Use as little as possible, but no less. >>>>>> You don't need much real-time data to do that. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yesterday I was thinking of buying this K-A-W meter but I began to >>>>> realize, I'm not going to change anything even after I see the meter's >>>>> results so why bother getting one. I mean I always try to save >>>>> electricity in my home using age old advice so I probably have little >>>>> practical reason for this device except for the fun factor. I'm old >>>>> enough to know by now how to save electricity without the meter and as >>>>> you pointed out, saving electricity in some cases isn't always >>>>> practical. >>>> A lot depends on you. I am a retired engineer. Actually, engineers >>>> never retire, we only bug our spouses with engineering-type stuff all >>>> over the house. I've had my Kill-A-Watt for about 5 years now and >>>> probably use it once a month, on average for generally testing, etc. I >>>> also had a voltage problem where the power company was jacking up the >>>> voltage, apparently to relieve low voltage problems in other parts of our >>>> local grid. I was up to 126 volts and sometimes higher. It did cause >>>> problems with at lease one piece of electronic equipment in my house. >>>> When I called them and gave them the results, they initially brushed me >>>> off. But when I got to talk to an engineer, he was interested. They >>>> called me back about 1/2 hour later and said the problem was theirs and >>>> it would be fixed immediately. I actually watched the voltage go down >>>> about an hour later. >>> >>> How would they do that ??? >>> >>> Greg >> I don't know, but it involved going to some site, probably a substation. >> BTW, the voltage, after they corrected it, was about 112 ... sometimes >> lower sometimes a little bit higher. However, over the months that >> follow, it has crept up to about 120 on average. I don't know if it goes >> at high as before (126 or higher) because I changed out the piece of >> electronic equipment that seemed to be responding to the problem. It was >> a set of computer speakers. I could duplicate the problem on the bench >> with a Variac. When the voltage would go to about 125, the speakers >> would start buzzing. I have several pairs of these speakers and all >> exhibit the same problem. So, I changed out the wallwart to a different >> 12 volt wallwart. Now those speakers have no problem. > > I currently have about 122 volts. Where I used to work, 125 was the norm. > > Greg
We're running about 124v except when I flush the toilet.
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Saul Bloom posted for all of us...
And I know how to SNIP

You are flushing your brain then because you quoted all of the postings. Maroon.
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Yes my iPad was tricky, but you should have seen how long it takes to use backspace in unix Pine. I guess I'm burnt in.
Greg
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What was said before your post? I don't see anything.
Greg
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gregz posted for all of us...
And I know how to SNIP

Dats Nicz but who cares?
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On 4/11/2012 12:39 PM, gregz wrote:

A common method is utilities have voltage regulators. They may be in substations, but there are also pole mounted ones. One type is a multi-step buck-boost transformer. The regulator raises and lowers the voltage from another transformer. For a +/- 10% range and a 75kVA circuit the regulator transformer would have a 7.5kVA rating.
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<snip>

I use mine every time I start the portable generator to exercise it. I check both the voltage and the frequence, under load and no load. Last fall I found that the automatic voltage regulation was off some and took it in for servicing. It may have very well saved some electronics the next power outage.
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