Who actually owns this 1,000 gallon propane tank?

Page 10 of 12  
wrote:

Why? The questions weren't asked when he bought the house. If asked, "It must be mine, it was there when I bought the house and no one has ever told me otherwise." No lies. He's probably blown that argument now, though. ;-)
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On Friday, September 27, 2013 10:44:39 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

The part about "no one has ever told me otherwise" would be a lie. He stated that a worker for the company was there couple days ago, looked up the serial # of the tank on their database and said that it shows up as being the tank of Company X along his address as the location Company X was his the gas supplier to the former owner and has now been bought by the current company.
But otherwise, I think we're pretty much on the same page. No need to go get a new tank, start asking too many questions, etc. Just keep doing what he's been doing and see what, if anything happens next.
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On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

I meant before he opened his mouth. Let them tell him.

He insists on making it far more difficult than it needs to be. If the gas company puts up a stink, just get another. ...and they know it, too.
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On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 14:31:15 -0400, krw wrote:

In general, I'm told on the legal groups that there is apparently a 3-year statute of limitations on whether a commercial entity can sue me to take back their property and that 3-year period apparently starts at the point at which the original lease defaulted.
Since the house was bought months after the original owners left it, I presume that 3-year period long ago expired.
I don't know if a UCC-1 (uniform commercial code?) was filed, nor whether that extends that 3-year time period.
So, tomorrow (Monday), I'll call the California Secretary of State to figure out how this works.
I'll report back, since this question appears to have been asked many times, but never really answered definitively. It's all hearsay (from me anyway) until I have actual facts.
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 06:55:08 +0000 (UTC), Alex Gunderson

Do you have a date the contract defaulted? If the previous homeowner used that tank in the previous three years, the clock had not started ticking yet.
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 05:58:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The previous owner had to stop paying before I bought the property, so it's at least 4.5 years ago.
I found out from this URL that a propane tank is NOT real property: Propane tanks are personal property http://www.lawrenceyerkes.com/html/rmx-article-real-vs-personal-property.htm
I found an almost exact case described here but for MD: http://forums.somd.com/life-southern-maryland/239558-united-propane-st-leonard-robbing-us-again-4.html
It seems, based on that nice description, the title search should have turned up any liens such as those that would be found by the propane company filing a California UCC-1 form. http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/ucc/
And, I found this interesting article on abandoned property: http://answers.uslegal.com/abandoned-property/24744/ May I keep a propane tank that came with property bought when lease on tank had ended? 04/28/2011 - Abandoned Property - State: CA #24744
They quote California statutes: California Civil Code, Section 2080.1, but, that says I have to give it to the sheriff, which is impractical.
So, the whole thing is confusing, at best.
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On 9/30/2013 7:41 AM, Alex Gunderson wrote:

Certainly is. OTOH, do you really want to own the tank and potential liability? Depending on condition you may wanto to be rid of it.
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:12:28 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Yes.
For the reasons stated here by Amerigas: http://www.amerigas.com/amerigas-propane-blog/residential-propane/the-pros-and-cons-of-tank-ownership/
Basically I can save more than the cost of the tank and maintenance simply by switching suppliers at will.
But, if I am to buy the tank, it's not clear based on my research *who* owns that tank.
It could be Suburban Propane (who originally bought it). Or the Heritage Group (who apparently thinks they bought it). Or it could be Amerigas (who bought the Heritage Group). Or, it could be me (who bought the house with the tank).
It could even be the title company, if they missed a lien on the property that comes up later to bite me. :)
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On Saturday, September 28, 2013 2:31:15 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

They did tell him without him asking. He said a service guy was there to hook up a new grill and while there, he looked up the serial # of the tank and told him it was listed as being owned by the previous gas company, and located at his address.

I agree. With the service guy having told him, I'd say if he doesn't hear anything more in the next couple months, he's probably OK for a long time. At some point, something else, eg another service visit, etc might trigger some action. I would think the most they would do is tell him he has to start paying the $15/mth rental fee. At that point, depending on the circumstances, he could offer to buy the 10+ year old tank for a couple hundred bucks.
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 08:18:54 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I called Debra Bowen, Secretary of State, whose office said they only handle commercial transaction recordings. The Secretary of State's office said I needed to call the County Recorder's office.
Calling the County Recorder was like calling the DMV. Nobody knew anything. Everyone was guessing. I was appalled.
Nonetheless, they told me (after I asked to speak with numerous people) that they've never heard of a propane company filling out paperwork with them for the lease or ownership of a propane tank.
Still, they said the only way to know for sure would be to stop by and do a personal search on their non-Internet computers - so - of course - that's what I'll do.
But, based on my conversations with them, I'm not going to hold my breath that there is any record of the prior transaction with the county.
Do you have any other ideas for whom to ask in the government to see what the typical process might be?
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Department or maybe through the fire department?
--
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to work within the system, but too early to shoot
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:31:52 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

Yes. There is a $250 permit fee, but I spoke to that department and they said they would never put down the serial number of the tank as the owner is responsible and it's not a matter of who owns the tank to them.
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That sorta surprises me. You would think they would take that to establish if someone tries to change it out and not pay the fee.
--
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wrote:

Perhaps it's a one-time fee.
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 17:54:27 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

I guess it's like swapping out the regulators. Or replacing the earthquake tie-down straps. You wouldn't expect to get a new permit for that.
But I don't know how this permit stuff works so I'm just guessing based on the fact the guy told me that they definitely do NOT write down the serial number of the propane tank in the permit & inspection process.
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On Monday, September 30, 2013 1:06:15 PM UTC-4, Alex Gunderson wrote:

I think your whole UCC form thing is a red herring. Filing that form gives the party filing it MORE protection. I don't see anything saying that if you don't file it, you relinquish ownership to the property in question. It's just that with a UCC form you have a better claim. Also, not sure a UCC thing applies to a tank rental.
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wrote:

No but it sounds as if your current gas company would have extreme difficulty proving that the tank is NOT yours.
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On Tuesday, October 1, 2013 8:41:44 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:

He could try calling dear leader Obama. He knows everything and is all about helping the common guy. But, maybe there is no one there to help him today. The govt appears to be shut down. Probably a good thing too. If Obama helps Alex like he's helped so many with Obamacare, his propane price will double, the cost of the tank will be $5K, he'll no longer be able to keep his existing gas company and he'll be down to a 29 hour work week. Unless he works for a company with about 53 employees. Then maybe he'll be one of the 4 with no job at all.
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On 10/1/2013 9:50 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

government, he's here to help.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 09:59:15 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

This video about the debt ceiling is both funny & instructive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIbkoop4AYE

It was done in January, so it precedes this budget, but, it covers EXACTLY what is going on (games by both sides).
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