Who actually owns this 1,000 gallon propane tank?

Page 9 of 12  
the OP will find a must inspec date stamped into the tank, after that no propane supplier will legally be able to fill it....
I dont know how they inspect such large tanks, it might be like high pressure gas lines are inspected at weld joints. they are X ray.......
but the method doesnt matter.
try calling a totally different gas supplier perhaps at the other end of your state to get answers....
and be sure to ask about large propane tank inspections
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 04:55:06 -0700, bob haller wrote:

Large tanks will outlast all of us, and then some; so I seriously doubt there is an "expiration date" on them.

When I first called the propane company years ago, they said I had to pay for an inspection before they would fill it (since I told them it was my tank).
I wasn't home at the time the inspector did his work, so I don't know what he did, but, he reconnected the tank and shut off and tagged the kitchen grill because it was missing an element (which I subsequently replaced).
I suspect (but need to confirm) that these large tanks won't be filled if they don't meet regulations, which the propane company has under control.
So I suspect inspection isn't a problem for the homewowner for these large aboveground tanks.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
http://www.ncagr.gov/standard/LP/LPgasConcerns/ConsumerConcernsAndFAQs.htm#Delivery5
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 05:01:02 -0700, bob haller wrote:

Nice find! That North Carolina web site says what I believe California does also:
Q: Why won’t another propane company fill the tank at my house? A: (North Carolina) state law prohibits one company from filling a tank belonging to another company. You may shop around for the best price (of propane) if you own the tank yourself, and that is the return you get for your investment of buying a tank.
It seems to be the same out here.
The propane company will gladly fill their tank or my tank, but not someone elses' tank.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 05:01:02 -0700, bob haller wrote:

Of great interest was the NEXT question in the list!
Q: When I buy a house, does the propane tank become mine? A: In North Carolina, when a propane company sets a tank, they keep ownership of it.
Then they go on to clarify: "This is especially true for above ground tanks. Buried tanks become the property of the homeowner more often, but not always."
Apparently I might be able to check with the county that they filed the proper forms (if California law is similar to North Carolina law). "If the propane company wants to keep the tank, they have that right. If they file a UCC-1 form with the county for a tank on the property, then they have clear documentation that they intend to keep ownership of that tank, even if the house sells and a disclosure statement does not point out that the tank is not included in that sale."
And, maybe even if they filed, it, it might expire after a few years: "The UCC-1 expires after a specified time period and must be renewed to remain in effect."
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 05:01:02 -0700, bob haller wrote:

This section was particularly useful: "If the buyer makes it clear that they have made the effort to confirm the status of fixtures, and if the propane tank and its contents were not excluded, then they may have a legitimate claim of ownership should the question come up."
I wonder if my "as is" discloser is enough on due diligence?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Friday, September 27, 2013 8:56:10 AM UTC-4, Alex Gunderson wrote:

The key question here is a claim against who? They are talking about the seller not stating who owns the tank, disclosing that it is not theirs, etc at the time of sale. In that case, what they are saying is that you may have a claim against the SELLER. It kind of makes sense. The tank was attached, and usually that which is attached is included in the sale. On the other side, the argument would be that it's common for tanks to be rented, not owned, and you the buyer assumed it was owned, etc. This probably has come up before and there would be court history on it. The other part is that even if you have a claim, it's can you collect? Do you even know where the seller is now?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 06:09:28 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I called the title company, who said that they will get back to me to confirm, but, offhand, they said they don't cover "personal property".
They said they "think" the propane tank (just like a satellite dish) is actually "personal property".
They suggested I talk to my real estate agent whom I did call.
My real estate agent didn't know (she suggested I look on the net) but she said she'd see if she could find out.
It could be that personal property is considered abandoned at some time period after the sale; or, it could be that personal property lasts forever (like the car example someone gave earlier).
I don't know but it seems the question boils down to:
Given the propane company can probably prove they originally owned the tank, and that they originally entered into an agreement with the prior seller, who didn't disclose anything (either way) about the tank (or, for that matter, the satellite dishes on the roof) ... who owns that tank today?
Either *they* own it (because they originally owned it); or, I own it (by virtue of the fact they abandoned it).
I still don't know the answer to that key question ...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 20:25:02 +0000 (UTC), Alex Gunderson

Generally, personal property that is "substantially affixed" to real property, becomes real property. For example, consider a large bathroom mirror that is hung with wires on the back of the mirror frame to hooks on the wall. That mirror is personal property.
But take that mirror and screw it onto the wall via bolts going through the frame and into the studs and it becomes real property.
Is a large outside steel tank connected by underground pipe to a heating unit (which is certainly real property) also real property? I would say yes; but that's what they have juries for: to decide such things.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:26:44 -0500, CRNG wrote:

I understand.
I do not know if it's real or personal property. Yet.
The title company sent me a copy of the "grant deed" by email.
It's only 2 pages, and mentions the property lines and the parcel number, and that's about it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Just use glass clips screwed into the dry-wall - with or without anchors, and it becomes "real property. Even if it is fastened to the wall with double sided tape.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 21:40:13 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Probably not. Stuff that's screwed to the wall is considered removable. Stuff that's nailed (or glued) is considered permanent. I doubt that either matters if the mirror never belonged to the owner, though.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:26:44 -0500, CRNG wrote:

The interesting thing is that I've concluded propane tanks are actually like no other property attached to the residence. None of the examples are even remotely similar, is what I've been concluding.
Looks like I'm not the only one to conclude that.
Look at this tax-related PDF I found trying to figure out whether an LPG tank is real or personal property in the state of California.
PROPERTY TAX RULE 153 LIQUEFIED PETROLEUM GAS TANKS http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/ip99051.pdf
Here's what it says inside (and I heartily agree):
"Contrary to the CAA's assertion, there is ample justification for treating propane tanks differently, to-wit, that no other type of personal or real property is similar. The CAA itself provides good examples of just how unique propane tanks are."
They go on a bit later, saying: "Propane tanks are unique in that they are often located on a lessee's property, but cannot be used or "consumed" by the lessee."
Note: They do state there are 300,000 LPG tanks in use in California, essentially all of which are not owned by the homeowner.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The answer is 42.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 9/27/2013 4:25 PM, Alex Gunderson wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 08:30:36 -0400, Stormin Mormon

You have a 33% chance of being right. The answer has to be either duct tape, WD-40, or 42.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
If the tank has a company logo on it "BURNWELL GAS" for example, it's probably owned by them. If it's just white, it may have been purchased outright by the HO, or maybe no one remembers.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 9/26/2013 7:56 PM, Alex Gunderson wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 08:30:27 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

It's just painted a cream color. No log whatsoever.
The serial plate has a company of manufacture and a date but no gas company listing.
I'm pretty sure (but not positive) now that the propane company probably owns the tank, unless they didn't fill out the requisite paperwork (but this all would need to be confirmed).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 9/26/2013 4:56 PM, Alex Gunderson wrote:

if you don't know c, then you can't assume that. they will probably still own it, even if they collect no rent on it. they would/could have sold it to the then-owner for nothing, but if you have no paperwork on that, then it didn't occur.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:57:42 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

I do agree I do NOT have a bill of sale.
So, at this point, I believe that the serial number probably matches that of the serial number of the tank that was originally rented to the previous owner.
So, that serial number would certainly prove that the original tank was originally owned by the original company which is now probably owned by my propane company who bought the original propane company & presumably their assets.
So the key question is how long can such property be left at someone's house in California before it can be considered abandoned (e.g., propane tanks, satellite dishes, etc.).
My title company said it was likely personal property and therefore not covered by them (they'll get back to me).
The county planning office said they have a record of permits but they do NOT write down serial numbers on those permits.
My real estate agent said she has never run into this question before and suggested I ask on the Internet.
The key question is who owns the tank after it has been left there for about five years in the state of California and not "claimed" nor removed by the original company?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
its probably best to keep the tank at least half full, in case some day OP cant get it filled. Then keep a low profile and hope its forgotten about. repainting the tank is probably a good idea, to fix rust and cover possible ownership questions.
when OP is ready to sell home expect lots of unpleasant questions.....
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.