Who actually owns this 1,000 gallon propane tank? (2023 Update)

[chaniarts]

look into burying it. i did that so i didn't have to look at it all the time. cost a bit more though, and you have to have additional permits and the right kind of ground to do so.

[Kurt Ullman]

Don't know about the tree situation at your place, but one of the few places I have seen where solar seems to work better than most alternatives is the pool heater.

[chaniarts]

that frequently happens in my area, and it's frequently over $1/gallon difference. i generally call 4 when i get a tank fill, and can save hundreds of dollars.

[chaniarts]

they didn't have to.

[chaniarts]

i think the OP wants it in a different place. the propane company won't want to do that for free.

[chaniarts]

you probably mean solar hot water, not solar electric. you'd need a massive array to do solar electric for an electric pool heater.

[trader4]

Good grief, yes! Solar is far more cost effective than any pool heating alternative. In CA you would think solar would be the way to go for a pool heater. I'm actually surprised I don't see them here in NJ. The main downside is that it takes a fairly large array, ballpark about the size of the pool surface area. So, you either need roof area for that, are OK with how it looks, or need to ground mount it. But compared to say nat gas, it's just about free to run. And those gas heaters are 200 - 400K btus, a real disaster.

[CRNG]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:33:41 +0000 (UTC), Alex Gunderson wrote in Re Re: Who actually owns this 1,000 gallon propane tank?:

Correct. You would do well to put in your own tank.

[clare]

I wouldn't WANT to own a 1000 gallon fuel tank - propane, gasoline, or deisel, strictly from the liability perspective. They own it, they are responsible for it, and if anything goes wrong THEY replace it.

It's not like a water heater, or furnace that you rent and pay for 5 times over in it's normal lifespan - I would always own my furnace, water heater, and water softener (as well as my car)

[Alex Gunderson]

I'm leaning toward the fact that whomever can prove it's theirs probably owns it, and, I can't prove it's mine.

I did call the propane company and they told me that they changed their rules, which makes a difference.

They now say they charge the same amount per gallon whether or not the owner owns the tank, so that knocks out one variable.

They also said they lowered the rental fees, which are $95/year for 500 gallon tanks and $120/year for 1,000 gallon tanks; so that changes the amortization schedule for just the tank to something like 10 years for break even.

Generally I use anything around 5 years as a no brainer, but, anything between 5 and 15 years takes a little thought. Come to think of it, that would be an interesting topic in and of itself, so, I'll bring that to a different thread.

[trader4]

So, who cares who owns it? As long as they aren't charging you for it, the current company is the lowest cost propane supplier, and they keep filling it, like others here I don't see the logic in shelling out $1000+ for a new tank when you have a free one.

Did you factor in the cost of a new concrete pad and the various other work that needs to be done? Who's going to do it and how much? Who hooks up the necessary piping and how much? Who takes away the old tank and how much? You're assuming the company owns it, so I guess they probably would take it away, but you aren't really sure. It could be yours for all you know. Cost of permits, if any?

[Kurt Ullman]

Can the company prove it is their"s. Actually I'd contact the company that made it and see if they can tell you who bought it. I would think they would have to be able to do that for recalls, etc., especially for something like a propane tank. Be sorta funny if it was third party altogether.

The first thing would be try and figure out who owns it.

[Alex Gunderson]

Well, I've changed my mind based on the information in this thread. But I'm still lining up my ducks! :)

Basically, I realized from what was said here, that I don't actually own the existing tank. So it's probably theirs (if they can prove it - which they probably can).

So now I'm stuck paying $120/year, which, if it costs $1000 to put in a new 1000-gallon tank, has a break-even point of about 10 years, which seems worth it (since there's the additional savings of being able to switch suppliers and saving an addition 25 to 50 cents per gallon, which, on 1,000 gallons, could be as much as a few hundred bucks per fill).

However, I just found out that a new 500 gallon tank, from the same company that I'm using now, is actually around $1,800 & a new 1,000 gallon tank is double that (they said the cost is about $3.60/gallon).

So, that changes the economics but the equations are the same.

SAVINGS: Yearly rental $120/year Price-per-gallon savings (varies, but can be as high as $1) Number of gallons per year (varies, but roughly 1,500 to 2,000)

COST: $3,600 for a 1,000 gallon tank (dunno if regulator is included) $400 for plumbing, pad, and trenching (I'm roughing costs out)

BREAK EVEN: Assuming I can save, on average, 75 cents per gallon on about

1,500 gallons, that's a savings of $1,245 per year if I own the tank.

Given the cost of ownership is $4,000, it would take only 3 years to make my money back - so that's a no brainer (since it's less than 5 years) to own the tank myself.

If I assume a savings of only 50 cents per gallon, that brings the break-even point to 4-1/2 years, which is still a no brainer (since it's still less than 5 years).

So, if the company starts charging me rent for the tank, and, at the same time, limits me to only them for fuel, it seems to be a no brainer (by my logic anyway) to simply buy the tank (maybe they will sell me that exact tank so that I don't have to put a new pad in to meet the new rules).

Is my logic sound?

[Alex Gunderson]

I have come to this realization that you are probably correct. I don't own the tank. They probably own it.

I agree.

I do not.

I now agree.

Actually, they fill their tanks and your tanks but they won't fill a tanks that they know to be owned by a third party.

[dadiOH]

If it were me, I'd consider the tank mine. Consider...

1. Previous owner bought gas from Company A. Tank was either the previous owner's or rented from Company A (probable).
2. House was sold, you start buying LPG from Company B. Company A *knows* they are no longer delivering gas, should have picked up tank if it was theirs. They did not so either it was not theirs or they abandoned it. In either case, I would now consider it mine; if someone asked to see a bill of sale, I'd tell them it is none of their business and/or came with the house.

Paint it a pretty color, stencil your name on it and enjoy. Need I mention that when you paint it you shouldn't sand or do anything else that could cause sparks?

[krw]

It's not.

IMO, no.

If they do figure it out, they'll likely only start charging you rent from that day. I wouldn't expect them to just give you the tank, though.

[krw]

That sounds like fun but it's not going to work. It's more likely to get someone pissed off.

[Alex Gunderson]

Just called the planning department.

In California, there is a $250 price for tank permits. But, they do NOT take down the serial number.

The permit guy says he knows of no registration (like they have in North Carolina) which holds ownership of a tank.

So, I need to look at the abandoned-property laws to find out whether the tank can be considered abandoned after five years.

[Alex Gunderson]

When it comes time to do that, I will.

Right now, they told me a replacement tank (brand new) is $3.60/gallon.

I'm pretty sure that's the high end but that would make the tank and the fuel just about the same price.

Googling for "How Much Does a 1000 Gallon Propane Tank Cost" finds lots of hits, most of which are around $1200 to $1500 (which is $1.20/gallon to about $1.50/gallon) which is less than the cost of the fuel which goes *inside* the tank.

[dadiOH]

Out of curiosity, what are you paying for gas?

I used Amerigas for a number of years...until I noticed (wife pays the bills) that they were charging $5.25/gal. That was 4-5 years ago. I switched to a smaller company, they charged $3.25. They were bought out by Amerigas so I switched to Ferrell 2-3 years ago; they started out at about $3.25 are now $5.00+.

IME, all the gas companies low ball you initially, rapidly bump it up ridiculously.