Who actually owns this 1,000 gallon propane tank?

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On Friday, September 27, 2013 8:34:27 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

+1
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On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 08:34:27 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I don't disagree with you.
But it's worth the call to the title company.
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Why? The propane company seems to be tickled pink to fill it. Since they bought the other company, it is most likely theirs anyway. I don't see any reason to spend the money to bring the new one up to code under the circumstances and I certainly don't see any need to take ownership of the tank (with attendant small but still not trivial legal risks that attach).

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wrote:

I wouldn't WANT to own a 1000 gallon fuel tank - propane, gasoline, or deisel, strictly from the liability perspective. They own it, they are responsible for it, and if anything goes wrong THEY replace it.
It's not like a water heater, or furnace that you rent and pay for 5 times over in it's normal lifespan - I would always own my furnace, water heater, and water softener (as well as my car)
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On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 13:42:32 -0400, clare wrote:

For some strange reason, from a home-repair perspective, owning a big round cylinder that will outlast me plus the next two owners of my residence (whomever they may be) just isn't a big worry for me.
I'm more worried about things that actually have moving parts.
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On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 22:19:44 +0000 (UTC), Alex Gunderson

+1
...but owning those is almost always a better deal, too. The leaser isn't losing money. I rented the conversion burner because 1) I didn't know how much life the boiler had left and 2) I owned it within a few years anyway (the "interest" was about zero).
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On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:03:04 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

I'm leaning toward the fact that whomever can prove it's theirs probably owns it, and, I can't prove it's mine.
I did call the propane company and they told me that they changed their rules, which makes a difference.
They now say they charge the same amount per gallon whether or not the owner owns the tank, so that knocks out one variable.
They also said they lowered the rental fees, which are $95/year for 500 gallon tanks and $120/year for 1,000 gallon tanks; so that changes the amortization schedule for just the tank to something like 10 years for break even.
Generally I use anything around 5 years as a no brainer, but, anything between 5 and 15 years takes a little thought. Come to think of it, that would be an interesting topic in and of itself, so, I'll bring that to a different thread.
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On Friday, September 27, 2013 2:09:02 PM UTC-4, Alex Gunderson wrote:

So, who cares who owns it? As long as they aren't charging you for it, the current company is the lowest cost propane supplier, and they keep filling it, like others here I don't see the logic in shelling out $1000+ for a new tank when you have a free one.

Did you factor in the cost of a new concrete pad and the various other work that needs to be done? Who's going to do it and how much? Who hooks up the necessary piping and how much? Who takes away the old tank and how much? You're assuming the company owns it, so I guess they probably would take it away, but you aren't really sure. It could be yours for all you know. Cost of permits, if any?
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On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:28:58 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I think I didn't make it clear that I was just lining up my ducks.
I agree with you, it matters not who owns it as long as they don't charge me for them owning it.
I asked the question only because I only recently found out that they say they own it - and I expect them to say that I need to pay rent at some point in the future.
Or, I might want to go to a different supplier, and, if so, I can no longer file an affidavit that implies that I own it.
At either of those points, it matters greatly who owns it. That's why I care now. Before one of those two things happens.
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P

But do they have any paperwork backing it up? As of now, it seems like you can say (just as loudly) that you own it and your paperwork is at least equal to their's as far as can be seen from afar.

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On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 08:28:31 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

If/when it comes down to it, I will certainly say it's my understanding that I own the tank by virtue of owning the house.
I'll call the company that made the tank tomorrow to see if they can track who originally bought the tank.
It's likely that this will come with the original propane company - which would make sense.
I'll let you know what that query results in.
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Can the company prove it is their"s. Actually I'd contact the company that made it and see if they can tell you who bought it. I would think they would have to be able to do that for recalls, etc., especially for something like a propane tank. Be sorta funny if it was third party altogether.

The first thing would be try and figure out who owns it.
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On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:35:17 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

:)
That's exactly why I asked the question!
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On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:35:17 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

If they lay claim to the tank, that's the very first question I will ask them.
In fact, it was the very first question they asked me almost 5 years ago, when I asked them to fill the tank for the first time.
Since I didn't have a bill of sale, I signed an affidavit saying I believed the tank was mine.

I'm at work right now, but that's an EXCELLENT idea. I will call them tomorrow to figure out if they can tell me that!
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I was wondering about the very large amount of time you are obviously spending on this. At first I thought that you might be retired with a lot of time on your hands. Now I understand. You are at work, stealing your employer's time. Do you work for a government agency?
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Which would make me believe that they can't back up any indication that they own it. Why else would they ask that question instead of just saying here it is.
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On Saturday, September 28, 2013 8:30:09 AM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:

You're conflating two different time periods. The first was in 2010 when he bought the house. The gas company he chose, which is the company he still has, is *not* the one the previous owner was using. So, the new company shows up and asks who's tank it is. He tells them it's his and I doubt each company has a database of all the other company's tanks and locations. They can't prove who owns or doesn't own it, so that's why they ask the question of who owns it and they accepted his word.
His current gas company later bought the previous gas company. So, presumably they now have that former company's database of tanks. The other day, a worker was there for service and while there he told him that his tank shows up in their database as being owned by the former company and located at his address. Presumbably they also have the records of the former company too, which would be what would clearly establish that they own it. If it comes to it, then I agree he should demand to see proof. But I think we all agree for the time being, he should just wait and see.
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On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 06:35:13 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Exactly!
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You would be money ahead - way ahead - renting one from your current gas company. Depending upon how much you use, they might well charge you no rent; especially if you tell them they can use/have the tank that came with the house.
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On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:26:02 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

I understand that the tank costs less new than the gas that is inside that tank, so, it makes sense they'd rather have my business than the tank.
But, that still doesn't answer the question of who actually owns the tank.
I could see the argument going either way depending on California law (whatever it is for this kind of property).
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