Whirlpool washer timer questions

I have a new Whirlpool-made Sears Kenmore 80 series direct drive washer (non-Calypso) with a mechanical timer. This and older belt-drive Whirlpools are designed to pause for several seconds just after the wash cycle has ended and just before the rinse cycle begins and also pause another several seconds between the end of the rinse cycle and the start of the spin cycle.
However, with this washer if the lid is opened during either pause, the timer will buzz and occasionally whir and make popcorn-like noises (gears clashing)?. The noises disappear immediately when the lid is closed and resume when it's opened again. The buzzing is not the normal timer motor noise, which is much quieter. I'm mostly concerned about the irregular nature of noises
A Sears technician (real technician) told me, over the phone, that these noises are normal for this model and that they're caused by the "AC-to-DC transducer" shutting off current to the rest of the circuit and the power having nowhere else to go. He also said the device could burn out if left in this condition too long.
I'm fairly sure he did not mean "transformer," although he did make a comparison to a model train set, which would imply a transformer, but this noise isn't like anything I've heard from any 60 Hz transformer or coil. And why would it be an AC-to-DC device? I thought Whirlpool washers with mechanical timers used only AC internally and never converted anything to DC.
What are these noises, and are they really normal?
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snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com wrote:

No schematic on the washer? It'll give a clue. Tony
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Tony Hwang wrote:

Unfortunately it's inside, and the whole exterior has to be removed (it comes off in one big piece) to reach it. I looked at the electrical diagrams of an older Whirlpool, but it doesn't show what happens inside the timer, only what the timer controls.
This washer replaces one installed a few weeks ago, and I have a feeling I'll soon end up replacing it as well, not only because of its timer but also some growling from below.
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you are not alone, see: http://applianceguru.com/forum2/4765.html
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buffalobill wrote:

I am alone - that thread was started by me. :)
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snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com wrote:

Hi...
Have no idea, just thinking out loud :)
Wonder if what you're hearing isn't a slightly mis-adjusted self holding relay chattering?
Take care.
Ken
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Ken Weitzel wrote:

That's a possibility, and I can't tell whether the noise is from gears or relay contacts, but in the diagram for the old washer there don't seem to be any self-holding relays or solonoids.
By the way, if you buy a scratch & dent appliance from Sears, most of the scratches and dents on returned items are probably made by Sears because they don't use any padding on their hand trucks or lift from the rear.
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On 17 Jan 2006 18:48:07 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com wrote:

This is new? Call sears and make them fix it.

My old one pauses too. It has something to do with permanent press I think. Does it pause in other cycles? Just curious.

I disabled my lid switch, so it always things the lid is closed. (I stuffed some paper towel in the hole) but I don't think anything should make those noises when the lid is up.

Do you have his assureances in writing? If not, they're almost worthless? Do you know his name? If not they're definitely worthless. If you do have his name, he may quit or be kidnapped at any moment. Worthless again. But having his name only makes things someone says valuable if you subpoena them for your small claims trial. Even then he might not be able to show up, or he might lie, or he might not remember, or he might have learned better since he said it, and that's why he really can't remember.

And he didn't actually give you good assurances. If you leave the lid up for too long, something will burn out? That's absurd, and I don't believe it.
I also don't believe that anyone who says in seriousness tha t"the current has nowhere else to go" knows what he is talkilng about. How do you know he was a r eal technician, and how do you know he wasn't on drugs?

I don't think you will be able to read this guys mind. I think he's choo choo.

I agree with you.

Probably not. I've almost never bought anything new. What does it take to get a service man to respond to a complaint?
What my girlfriend says is to just call again. That you'll get a different answer each time you call. (not just about appliance places but everywhere) . On the second or third time, they'll say, Well have someone out Wednesday.
If they don't want to send someone, send a certified letter, return receipt, detailing what you said here that is wrong with the machine, and noting that they refused or failed to send a repairman, and that you will hold them responsible forever for this part and any damage caused by the failure to fix it Maybe two copies of the letter, one to the manager of thestore, and one to someone at corporate, addressed to the store maybe, with indication that a copy goes to so-and=so at the corporate office.
Well this might not be the best way to complain, because you want it fixed and not just them notified, but at the very least this will put you on record as having this problem way before the guarantee expires.
Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also.
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Duracell says their alkaline batteries have a 7-year shelf life, defined at 80% remaining capacity, with no discharge. I spoke with a Duracell ap engineer who had a hard time understanding that's the expected life in a circuit, if the battery powers the circuit and we supply the battery with exactly the current the circuit requires.
He had a harder time imagining that the battery might last longer than 7 years if we supply an additional "shelf current" to make up for the self-discharge over 7 years, saying that might avoid turning some zinc into zinc oxide, but it wouldn't change the electrolyte dissolution or materials breakdown that also degrade capacity.
He was also unconvinced that float-charging a battery with an intermittent AC supply or load (eg charging a 4.5 V clock radio battery that supplies 120 uA to the clock alone but 50 uA with the radio running to 4.5 V using 2 5.1 V zeners in the circuit below) to its nominal voltage would extend it beyond 7 years, saying one smoke detector manufacturer drastically reduced battery lifetime by using a circuit that accidentally charged the batteries with "a few milliamps," vs microamps.
Supplying a shelf current along with a load current is promising, IMO, but supplying shelf current alone in a new battery-backed-up AC-powered product with a battery test function seems too costly and inefficient, given the tiny possible reliability improvement.
hot 10K || Cload -------www--------||-------------->|------------> || | | | | 120 VAC /-/ --- to appliance ^ _ | | neutral | | ------------------------------------------------>
20 DATA "AAA",0.27,"AA",1.1,"C",2.8,"D",8,"9V",0.5 30 FOR B=1 TO 5 40 READ TYPE$,AH 50 ILOAD=AH/8765'1-year discharge current (A) 60 ISHELF=.2*AH/(7*8765)'self-discharge current (A) 70 Cload00000!*(ILOAD+ISHELF)/(60*370)'1-year charge pump cap (uF) 80 Cshelf00000!*ISHELF/(60*370)'7-year charge pump cap (uF) 90 PRINT TYPE$;TAB(6);AH;TAB(12);1000*ILOAD;TAB(28);C1;TAB(44);C10 100 NEXT
Type Ah Iload (mA) Cload (uF) Cshelf (uF) Digikey # Price
AAA 0.3 0.031 0.0015 0.000039 P10799-ND $2.96/10 AA 1.1 0.125 0.0068 0.00015 P10806-ND $3.08/10 C 2.8 0.319 0.015 0.00039 P10811-ND $3.92/10 D 8.0 0.913 0.047 0.0012 9V 0.5 0.057 0.0033 0.000068 P10802-ND $2.96/10.
The curves on the technical Duracell web site don't define capacity. After the above Ah discharge, the output voltage reaches 80% of nominal voltage, eg 1.2 V for a 1.5 V cell at 0.25 watts. AAAs store a lot less than AAs...
Nick
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mm wrote:

This pause is different from the cool-down pause for permanent press, and it happens even during the regular wash cycle.

This Sears person seemed to have that rare, long-lost commodity - actual knowledge.

I am shocked, simply shocked, that an employee of a corporation would actually lie to the public. :)

I wouldn't rule it out because this machine doesn't seem to be designed with as much thought as the 1981 Whirlpool it replaced. For one thing, if you start the wash cycle in the middle, it will agigate even without water in the tub (the old one would always fill, no matter where the washer was started in the cycle). And another detail overlooked: the lid knocks into the timer knob, which I'm sure will wear out the paint one day.

That part didn't make sense to me, and I thought he merely oversimplified the explanation in case the customer didn't understand electricity. He did know about some not-so-obvious mechanical details about the suspension.

The problem is that, In my experience, the best technicians tend to hardly talk.
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