Which of these 4 spots (2 on tire, 2 on wheel) are supposed to be lined up?

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On 07/18/2013 11:45 AM, blue bmw wrote:

true. i just drive on airfields.
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fact check required

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You've really bought into their advertising, that's for sure.

LMAO! Since when have Germans not cared about quality?

What color is the sky on your planet?
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On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:47:18 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

I guess it depends on what *you* mean by quality.
For example, they make the DISA flap valve out of plastic. Do you know what happens what that plastic wears, and the metal pin falls out, and gets ingested by the intake manifold?
Another example is that they make the headlight adjusters out of PBT plastic. Do you realize what happens to every plastic headlight adjuster after just a few years of that plastic baking in the $1,000 Hella headlamp housing?
Another example are the o-rings inside the VANOS assembly. Do you know what happens to every buna-N rubber o-ring exposed to hot oil day in and day out?
Another example is the CCV valve. And the Bosch 5.7 ABS control module. And the recycled plastic of the windshield cover molding. And the Kuster window regulators. And the lack of adhesive on the door vapor barriers. And the rubber-filled thrust arm bushings.
The worst quality issue of all are the Behr/Nissens/Hella expansion tanks and radiators. I don't know how Toyota can build a plastic radiator that lasts for years, while the Germans can't build one to last two years - but the proof is simply that there probably isn't a single BMW E38, E39, or E46 that hasn't had the entire cooling system replaced at least once, and most are twice.
If you still think the Germans care about quality, you'll have to convince me you understand what I wrote above - and then you'll have to explain how those (all extremely well known issues that happen to almost all BMW E39s, E38s, and E46's) aren't quality issues.
Point is, the Germans care about performance; not about quality.
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You appear to be arguing that a BMW is a POS.
A very expensive POS.
Barnum was right.
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Not a whole lot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrile_rubber
--
Tegger

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On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:02:43 -0700, jim beam wrote:

I think you missed the point.
Some owners are shallow, and mainly care about looks. Others are more concrete who deeply care about performance handling. Absolutely none are expecting reliability nor quality of components.
Both types exist; neither of which buys the vehicle for reliability, so, your point doesn't even make sense because it shows you are using "your" mentality on a vehicle which you would never buy.
Think about being in someone else's shoes, and you'll be edified.
For reliability, both BMW & non-BMW owners agree: - Buy a Honda or Toyota.
All this is OT since the topic is proper tire mounting.
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On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 03:15:52 +0000 (UTC), blue bmw

Those dots are unscientific and meaningless. Get your tires balanced by a shop that does road force balancing. The operator won't pay any attention to the dots. If he's good, you'll be good. If not, take it back.
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On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:08:47 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:

I don't disagree that road force balancing is best, but, how many shops have you seen who spin the rim against a separate wheel before mounting the tire on the rim?
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On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 06:26:38 +0000 (UTC), blue bmw

With road force balancing the procedure is to turn the tire on the rim it's mounted on, to where the least weight has to be used to strike the balance. Whether the guy knows how to do it properly, or wants to do it properly instead of just using more weights is unknown. You just can't control everything, so get used to it. The dots are manufacturing QC only, to minimize bad batches, and nobody properly balancing tires pays any attention to the tire dots, because the rims may have a different balance point. And that could be at a point other than the valve stem. It's a crap shoot. So just pick a good balancing shop. If you feel bad vibes, take it back and have them redo it. Usually it's good the first time, but I've had to take my vehicles back a couple times. They rebalanced the problem wheels at no extra cost.
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On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 03:20:56 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:

I agree that nobody pays attention to the dots and match-mounting marks - but I do not agree that this is the *proper* way to install a tire (by ignoring those marks).
The dots are there to allow proper tire installation on the rim.
Both the rim and dots are required by law (according to the references I previously quoted).
All I'm asking is what the proper way is to align those marks.
I do have a call to BBS, and they called me back - so I'm working with them as we speak to determine what that match mounting mark means on my BBS rims.
The guys I spoke to didn't know if BMW does anything different at the factory, as they only handled the USA BBS wheels - so - they forwarded my questions over to Germany.
Still - the answer won't arrive in time for *my* tires to be mounted properly - and that's sad that you can't trust any tire professional to mount a passenger tire properly. :(
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On Monday, July 15, 2013 10:51:29 AM UTC-4, blue bmw wrote:

Since this issue appears to be of the utmost importance to you, have you co nsidered cancelling the appointment until you have the answer and/or found a tire shop that you trust implicitly?
I realize that there may be valid scheduling issues that you have to deal w ith, e.g. leaving for a 1000 road trip at 8 AM tomorrow therefore you need new tires mounted today. Absent something like that, why rush into a mounti ng appointment that is going to eat away at you until the next you have to have tires mounted?
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On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:52:00 -0700, DerbyDad03 wrote:

No shop is trustworthy. I need the tires installed.
At the moment, that's what I have (and nothing more).
My spare is just a rim with an open Schrader valve. And, NONE of the four mounted tires are balanced. Plus, I suspect they damaged the rims (but I can not prove it, although I snapped photos and will send them to tire rack).
BTW, I have heard it all where people go to a shop and then complain that the shop installed tires and made the engine light go on or some other circumstantial bs - so - I told the manager at the shop at the time - and I told Tire Rack and I'm telling you - I have absolutely no proof how the two wheels got damaged - but - I can tell everyone that I checked visually all four wheels (to mark the match-mounting points) and I never knew they were damaged if they were at that time.
I also proved to everyone that the installer was sloppy, careless, and unprofessional, in quite a few ways (e.g., prying off the BBS twist-off hubcaps, putting the wrong torque, wrong air pressure, dropping the lug bolts, leaving wheel weights on, not cleaning the mud on the inside wheel, etc. - that I "suspect" (without proof) that they damaged the wheels in the process.
That's why I told them I was leaving, as to prevent further damage.
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On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:08:47 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:

Then why are they *required* by law on all US automotive tires and wheels?
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On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 06:52:30 +0000 (UTC), "Angel A."

There is no such requirement.
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On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 02:54:15 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:

Motor magazine article on match mounting for aluminum wheels: http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID 04
"OE tire suppliers are *required* to mark a tire’s radial runout high point, and OE wheel makers are *required* to mark a wheel’s radial runout low point."
Tire Rack article on match mounting: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid 
"Original Equipment (OE) tire suppliers are *required* to mark the tire's "high point" while OE wheel manufacturers mark the wheel's "low point."
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Angel A. wrote:

Notice the OE and OEM? This is required ONLY on tires and wheels sold to auto manufacturers to be installed as the vehicles are made.
Look at tires that are not sold as an OEM tire and you usually won't find marks. Especially on house brands and LT tires.
--
Steve W.

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On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:44:32 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

I understand what you're saying.
What you're saying is that the marks on the wheel are for OE mounting. And, I tend to agree with you (although I'd like to hear that from BBS or BMW directly).
But, even so, they're STILL supposed to install the marked tires properly. And, my tires clearly had the red and yellow dots. And, just as clearly, you remove about 1/2 an ounce of aluminum when you drill the valve stem hole, and you put in about 1.2 ounces (the actual ounces are in the references I provided), so you're net heavy at that spot.
So, they _should_ have, at the very least, mounted the red dots next to the valve stems.
Out of the five tires/wheels touched, guess how many have the red dots next to the valve stem?
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blue bmw wrote:

On most vehicles made recently the valve stem weight is already taken into account when the rim is made. With the OEM stem in place the wheel will be balanced. On old steel wheels with a weld joint where the rim was welded you had low spots. Most modern rims run much truer thanks to the machining that is done and current manufacturing methods. The only real problems I see with aluminum rims is from people hitting holes/curbs or road debris. Most also tell you they won't pay to have the rim trued or replaced.
The dot telling you the "high spot" on a tire is actually telling you where the inner belt plies overlap causing a thicker casing in that area.
Oh and you could have a perfectly balanced tire and still have vibration as a result of an unbalanced rotor or drum, axle runout or something like binding CV joints.
If you REALLY want a true, balanced tire hit the salt flats during speed trials. Watch the guys who work on those tires.
First they balance every rotating part of the drive train, Then they will true up and balance the rim, then install a tire and shave it so it is perfectly round, Then they balance it installed on the vehicle.
Price used to be about 100 bucks per tire installed.
--
Steve W.

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On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 17:58:51 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

That may be true, but not a single one of the match mounting references stated that.
Do you have a reference we can read that says the wheel is balanced all by itself, even with a valve stem attached into a drilled hole?
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On 07/15/2013 09:44 AM, Steve W. wrote:

or michelin. michelin are the most high tech tire manufacturer in the world and they don't dot-mark because it's a pointless exercise. particularly if, as you say, the wheel's actually been used.
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