Which of these 4 spots (2 on tire, 2 on wheel) are supposed to be lined up?

Page 1 of 7  
I'm confused - but I have an appointment tomorrow for tires to be mounted - and - I'm confused which two of the four dots should line up:
http://i43.tinypic.com/dcfrea.jpg
Both documents below say US wheel manufacturers and tire manufacturers are *required* to mark the "low spot" and "high spot" respectively. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid  http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID 04
On the back of my stock 16" BMW (BBS) rims, is this nick painted white, which I presume is the marked "low spot" (which, you may notice, is not at the valve stem):
http://i42.tinypic.com/24w54cj.jpg
Yet, on the tires, I see both a red dot and a yellow dot! RED = (apparently the) high point of radial runout on the tire YELLOW = (apparently the) light point (with respect to balance) on the tire
So, that makes FOUR separate spots, two on the wheel and two on the tire: 1. Wheel valve stem 2. Wheel white nick (presumably that's the low spot 3. Tire red dot (presumably that's the high spot) 4. Tire yellow dot (presumably that's the light point)
OK. Now what should I tell the installer to line up?
Q1: What two spots (of those four) should line up? Q2: Should they remove all these weights first?
http://i39.tinypic.com/2q0o9xl.jpg
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sunday, July 14, 2013 10:15:52 PM UTC-5, blue bmw wrote:

.tinypic.com/dcfrea.jpg Both documents below say US wheel manufacturers and tire manufacturers are *required* to mark the "low spot" and "high spot" r espectively. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=1 7 http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID 04 On the back of my stoc k 16" BMW (BBS) rims, is this nick painted white, which I presume is the ma rked "low spot" (which, you may notice, is not at the valve stem): http://i 42.tinypic.com/24w54cj.jpg Yet, on the tires, I see both a red dot and a ye llow dot! RED = (apparently the) high point of radial runout on the tire YELLOW = (apparently the) light point (with respect to balance) on the ti re So, that makes FOUR separate spots, two on the wheel and two on the tire : 1. Wheel valve stem 2. Wheel white nick (presumably that's the low spot 3 . Tire red dot (presumably that's the high spot) 4. Tire yellow dot (presum ably that's the light point) OK. Now what should I tell the installer to li ne up? Q1: What two spots (of those four) should line up? Q2: Should they r emove all these weights first?
http://i39.tinypic.com/2q0o9xl.jpg
If this will be done by a tire shop, they should know what to do!!!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 20:22:24 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

The problem is they don't care - and - if I don't tell them what to do, they won't do it.
Proof is that they torque all cars to 100 foot pounds (just ask them); and they put in the same air pressure in all four tires (BMW doesn't spec it that way); and the alignment shops don't add 500 pounds of weight (BMW does spec it that way); and they rotate the tires (BMW doesn't spec out a rotation), etc.
Point is, the guy installing tires, in my humble experience, may or may not know how.
Sure, you'd *think* they'd know - but - I've asked them in the past and had to show them articles on how to mount them - but I've never seen both the red dot and the yellow dot on the same tire nor the valve stem not being the corresponding spot on the wheels.
So, in summary - the tire installers do *not* care about properly installing tires (just like the alignment guys don't add the required 500 pounds of weight, 150 in the driver seat, 150 in the passenger seat, 150 in the back seat, and 50 in the rear (plus a full tank of gas, new'ish tires, and proper air pressure).
They don't care. So, we must be armed beforehand with the knowledge.
Isn't that what this group is all about?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
blue bmw wrote:

You drive BMW and not going to the dealer? And how come you go to a tire shop you don't trust? My friend has a year old M5, all service is does by local dealer always Period. My kid drives late Subaru WRX STI very souped up one. He only goes to tuner shop for any service. If the shop screw up their reputation is at stake. Once they did a fuel line work and when son came home I noticed fuel leak in the garage(one O ring was not properly seated) When phoned they sent flat bed tow truck, they did not want the car to be driven for fear of fire.
They redid the work with no charge and profuse apology for inconvenience caused. After all they are the one who tuned the car top to bottom including set of summer and winter tires.
If you don't want to take your BMW to a tire shop you can't trust then you should drive something like CBMWs are very precision machine that is why they are expensive. Me? I just drive Acura which the dealer does all the schedule routine maintenance. Never had any problem.
If I want BMW I'd lease one and beat the hell out of it and return it when lease is up. That's best way to drive a car like that. Keeping it long and in shape, it is pouring resources to bottomless can..... New ones are not like old ones either. Tried Bimmer user forum?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 22:54:25 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

If it's still only a year old, the service is free at the dealer. Even a cheapskate would go to the dealer under that circumstance.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 22:54:25 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

A BMW is just a car.
And, ummmm... you know what they call the dealer? Hint: It starts with "st".
Only a moron goes to the dealer, and even then, only because it makes that moron feel better to pay more. They love to brag how they go to the (st)...ealer for all their maintenance. It makes *them* feel important.

They *all* torque the lug bolts to the same for all cars. They *all* use air tools (for speed) and only check torque after the fact (when the bolts no longer turn, which means it's too late). They *all* put the same tire pressure in all four tires. None of them match mount unless you force them to. etc.

for far less service. But, the coffee is free, the lounge air conditioned, and the service manager all smiles!

If you don't know the answer to the question, that's OK, but, why not just say so?

braggadocio? It's a nice handling car. But, it's just a car. There's nothing special about it (except the marketing is fantastic. It has people *thinking* it's special). That's a great feat - but - for those who understand it (I bought mine new), it's just a car. Like any other car.
Specifically, it has wheels. Like any other car has wheels.
The question remains: Does *anyone* on this newsgroup actually know how to properly mount a tire with respect to the dots?
I've read the articles - but it's confusing when there is both a red dot and a yellow dot. I'm hoping I'm not the only one on this planet who thinks about this stuff ahead of time.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Only a moron buys a bmw because it make him feel better to pay more for an overpriced POS. BMWs isn.t what they used to be. If you wanted something decent you should have gotten at least an MB C250.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/15/2013 05:50 AM, JoeBro wrote:

Eh? Two completely different cars. BMW (at least up until a couple years ago) was for people who liked to drive, a MB was for people who just want a more "upscale" car. (in quotes because they're upscale in the US, but not necessarily everywhere else in the world.)
Unfortunately from what I hear the new 3 series is not as engaging to drive as the old one, but I haven't driven one myself yet...
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:50:43 +0000, JoeBro wrote:

I've had this bimmer for more than a decade, and, in very many ways, Joe Bro is right. It's a POS when it comes to the plastic cooling expansion tank and radiator neck blowing up; the DISA valve being sucked into the intake manifold destroying your exhaust valves; the stock VANOS seals being made out of nitrile rubber instead of Viton; the $1000 Hella fiber-optic headlights whose PBT plastic headlight adjusters crumble on every bimmer over time due to forseeable heat inside the headlight; the cheapness of BMW positioning the Bosch 5.7 ABS control module right next to the exhaust manifold (to save on wires and tubes) so that it fries on almost every 5-series, 3-series, and 7-series bimmer over time; the cheap recycled rubber gasket around the windshields crumbling to dust in just a few years; the stingy application of adhesive on the door vapor barriers so that water invariably leaks into every single bimmer's back seat over time; the idiotic seat motor wires which cause seat twist eventually in all bimmers; the cheap yet fancy window regulators whose clamps fall off their cables in almost every bimmer over time; (and I could go on).
Yet, while the bimmer *is* a POS with respect to quality, it does handle rather well.
So, like everything else, a bimmer is a trade off between superb handling and safety, and POS component quality.
But, let's get back to the point please.
From the match-mounting articles, after reading the dozen references on match mounting, I *think* this is the algorithm: 1. If you have steel wheels with match mounting marks, and red dots on the tires, mount the match mounting mark to the red dot. 2. If you have steel wheels without match mounting marks, and red dots on the tires, mount the valve stem to the red dot. 3. If you have steel wheels without match mounting dots, and no red dots on the tires, then mount the valve stem to the yellow dot. 4. However, if you have aluminum wheels, and red dots on the tires, then mount the valve stem to the red dot. 5. Likewise, if you have aluminum wheels, and no red dots on the tires, then mount the valve stem to the yellow dot.
All this works fine *if* there are no match mounting marks on the aluminum wheels. But *mine* have (what appears to be) match mounting marks.
Unfortunately, NONE of the articles mentions what to do in the case of aluminum rims with an existing match mounting mark.
I have a call in to BBS which hasn't been returned yet: 877.832.8209
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/14/2013 10:21 PM, blue bmw wrote:

if you've read the articles, then it should be clear. if it's not, then go to a professional that makes a living doing this stuff and pay them to do it right. if you don't know enough to know if they're doing it right or not - see first line above - then you don't have any right to complain. and certainly don't have a leg to stand on bleating about it here.
--
fact check required

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:02:30 -0700, jim beam wrote:

Even the professionals don't know, as I asked Midas to put the dots in the proper place and they said they didn't even know what the dots meant (the manager said he had never ever even seen the dots before - he said it's the first tire he's ever seen that has them).
Also, the articles are (in some ways) mutually incompatible.
Therefore, it's not as simple as reading the articles; nor as simple as having a professional do it (as they care more about making money and churning customers than installing tires correctly).
If it was that simple, I would never have asked in the first place.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/17/2013 05:50 AM, blue bmw wrote:

um, you're confusing "midas" with "professional". but that doesn't matter because you're one of those guys that doesn't get it otherwise you'd never have gone there in the first place.
--
fact check required

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 07:38:19 -0700, jim beam wrote:

This is true.
Apparently MIDAS also is "Tire Kingdom", "Big O Tires", NTB Tire Center, Service Central, and Merchants.
All of those are run by the same company.
Clearly they are not professional.
The question is, WHO IS professional when it comes to installing tires on aluminum wheels?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/18/2013 02:58 PM, blue bmw wrote:

I told you already, you need to tell us where you live.
Chain shops are just as hit and miss as everyone else, the sign over the door is no guarantee that the guy *at that location* is in any way competent. You need someone with local knowledge to tell you where the good guy works. Getting tapped in to your local (presumably in your case BMW) car club/group is probably the best way, or ask on some enthusiast forums if nobody here is in your area.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:02:30 -0700, jim beam wrote:

I'm going to have to put you in the killfile simply because you argue like a fifteen year old.
And, you know the rule. Don't argue with a ... because they will bring you to ... and in the end ... they'll win ... due to their experience.
Point is, I have read the articles. You clearly have not. Some clearly say how to match mount; others are less clear; and others conclude it only matters for OEM.
All say that if you want to match mount, you mount the red dot to the match-mounting mark on steel wheels and to the valve stem on aluminum wheels.
The part you fail to understand is that the tire shops are the ones who don't install the tires correctly. They're the ones who need to read this literature. Not us. (I've already read all the articles that are known to this newsgroup and posted on this thread.)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Monday, July 15, 2013 1:21:37 AM UTC-4, blue bmw wrote:

Seems like you're falling for it hook, line, and sinker.
A BMW is just a car. Why do you need the tires lined up so specifically, or the lugs torqued just so, or the air pressures a certain way?
After all, IT'S JUST A CAR! You said it yourself.
If you want BMW-recommended service, don't take it to Joe Schmoe's Garage. Take it somewhere that specializes in BMW, or a BMW dealer.
BTW: This is a HOME IMPROVEMENT group!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 7/17/2013 1:37 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I thought this dot business was a bunch of hooey (sp?). I asked google tire and wheel dots. Guess what -
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid 
--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 06:31:50 -0500, DanG wrote:

You do realize that was posted in the original list of references that were sent to me via email by Ken Tener of Tire Rack (and posted here as one of the 7 Internet references on how to perform proper tire wheel match mounting).
Right?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 19:02:40 +0000 (UTC), blue bmw

So do you disagree with "We have found that the only way to accurately match mount replacement tires on used original or new aftermarket wheels is to use Hunter tire balancers which have the ability to measure wheel runout and tire force variations under load before the tire and wheel are installed on the vehicle. Using these machines, a colored dot might be positioned anywhere on the wheel relative to each wheel's runout measurement. In the end, the markers have little, if any, relevance when replacement tires are installed."
Are you bringing new OEM rims and tires to the shop? If not, Tirerack says the dots are meaningless, and the Hunter does the "match mounting." And the Hunter will do the same for all OEM. Tirerack fails to note one thing. "True match mounting" will entail measuring all 4 rims and tires for the car, then matching each tire to the rim best suited to it. This will minimize weights. But it will also require dismounting and remounting some tires after the measurements are made. It may minimize weights, but will still be imperfect, because any rim can distort and change the tire measurement taken on it. It's really an exercise in futility without endless dismounting and remounting to further refine measurements. And the dismounting and remounting will further increase distortions of measurement. So you'll never get close to perfection. You want to pay for this endless nonsense? You can find somebody to satisfy that urge. Up to you. Yellow pages. I'll say it once more. Take it to a shop that sells and balances a lot of tires with a Hunter. Stay out of their hair. Don't mention dots. Take it for a spin at whatever speed you desire. If you get vibration, take it back to the shop for rebalance. It's really that simple.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:37:21 -0700, dennisgauge wrote:

I think you're missing the point.
All cars deserve proper lug bolt (or nut) torque. All cars deserve proper match mounting. All cars deserve proper tire inflation pressures.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.