Where to get Road Stencils (huge white letters)?

[Muggles]

Ygm

[Henry Jones]

Luckily, in this case, the GIS/ISD guy thanked me for teaching him how the Assessor guy indicated private roads (and they communicated with each other in turn).

So, in "my" county, the two guys work together well, it seems.

The main problem is that my county's GIS/ISD map guy tells me they don't have the *concept* of a dotted-line road; they only have a database "attribute" of "PVT".

Apparently they give these databases to the map companies (e.g., Google), I think, which, I think, means that Google can get the attribute from them.

Google cars drive right past our road. They never go down. So, the google street view stops at the entrance where you can look around from the main street, but their cars don't go down our road (so they must have seen the sign saying it's private).

From "my" conversations with the county, accurate map data starts at the deed, and then goes to the assessor and then to GIS/ISD and then to map companies.

I don't know if that's true - but that's what they told me.

Yes. Very rural.

[Achmed Aabzaar]

A hedgerow of thorny bushes and poison ivy can go a long way to discouraging trespassers.

[Dean Hoffman]

We use treated 4x4s to hold our electrical panels. I'm not sure on the weight. They're clumsy and are all one guy can lift into place. The posts last for years. They're probably bigger than the signs you're thinking about and would have about the same stress from wind and so on. We dump bags of premix concrete into the holes and just tamp it in using a ground rod. What about SuperStrut or its equivalent? Home Depot:

Fastenal also carries it. They're usually pretty proud of their stuff though.

[rbowman]

Yeah, there really isn't a 'dotted line' road. The segments of a road are just a geometry collection of points that define the centerline. The attributes are fields in the database record in addition to the geometry of the feature.

Where the 'dotted line' comes in is when the data is rendered in a visual format either traditional paper maps or electronic maps. Someone has to develop and apply the symbology based on selected attributes. For example, many data sets have a speed attribute so you could say everything 25 mph or less will be narrow and black, 26 - 44 will be black but a little wider, above 45 - 64 is blue, and the 65 and higher roads are red. Makes it look pretty. The local GIS people could certainly do broken lines for a PVT attribute. Give the exact same data to Google, and they will render it differently.

The real PITA when working with a number of agencies is the schema of the data varies. One place may have a 'speed' attribute in mph, another may have road_class with 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.

Google can gt the raw data and convert it to their format. The problem is in the rendering. I don't know if I've ever seen them show private roads in a special way.

Definitely, as far as ownership. This county puts their data on line if you know where to look. It's public information but some people might not be happy if they knew you could look up the assessed value of their property, etc. I use it to check ownership for cases like yours. There is a lot of public land in the county but finding a way to get to it can be difficult.

The assessors generally deal with polygons, mapping out the parcel boundaries and in some cases building footprints. Streets and roadways are often someone else's problem. Then you get the hydrology guys who only see stuff if it is wet, the utility people who know where their piplines are, and so forth. Getting it all to come together is a project.

It's getting better. It used to take years to get maps updated.

[Henry Jones]

Yup. I don't have any goal of antagonizing the residents who have the easement on my property.

The goal is to keep out the trespassers.

So the mailboxes will stay put unless the post office doesn't want to travel past a no-trespassing private road no public access sign.

I am almost afraid to ask them their rules.

[Henry Jones]

I like the idea of wood posts because it seems like it would look more rustic, while still being "professional" enough to be taken seriously and being hard enough to just remove (since I suspect our foul-mouthed bikers wouldn't mind stooping that low).

It does get windy out here. Very windy. We're on the top of a mountain. So, I hadn't thought of that until now.

I haven't every poured concrete yet, so I appreciate that hint. I presume I dig a 3 foot hole about a foot wide (or whatever) and then fill it with water and then dump the concrete and hold the pole until it sets?

They look much better! They're only $20 for ten feet for the superstrut 12 gauge

I'm not sure if the 14-gauge $17 strut will be strong enough. I never used a "gauge" when dealing with posts (I never dealt with posts before).

Googling, I find this chart:

14 gauge is 0.0747 inches thick for steel 12 gauge is 0.1046 inches thick for steel

That doesn't really tell me what gauge I need for a sign post though...

[Henry Jones]

Funny you mention that, because at the gate that separates the trail from the paved road is a "beaten path" around the gate by foot or bicycle traffic.

My plan is to put *something* there. I might snap a picture for you as I was gonna look today at it (it's on my neighbor's property so I don't go there often myself).

He's OK with a chain and maybe a thorny bush but I love the idea of poison oak, which is something that is super plentiful in these here parts.

I'm thinking of a chain though, which the determined bikers and pedestrians will cross but which sends a message.

I'm learning more and more that diligence by the property owners is rewarded, so, diligence we will continue.

[Henry Jones]

The implication from the GIS/ISD guy was that the map companies get the data from *them*. Is that true?

The assessor's office said "it all starts with us". Is that true?

In California, the "assessed" value is a number based on the original costs, which is also online (where the assessed value goes up over time, but since it's based on the original cost, one person could be paying $1000 per year in property taxes while the next could be paying $50,000 per year for a duplicate property.

On the maps the Assessor gave me, the houses are NOT shown. Just the property lines and roadways.

Yes. The GIS/ISD guys had soil maps, and other maps online, so I know what you mean. You seem to have experience in this. It's all new to me.

Well, the police said it would take time before they get the GIS/ISD data updated in their maps, and I've filed a google request to fix the maps once each day for the past three days, so, we'll see how long it takes. :)

You do seem to have experience with this, but it's all brand new to me so any advice you've earned over time is welcome.

[Dean Hoffman]

No water. Just dump it in dry a bit at a time and tamp it. No need to let it set. We set the panels immediately. Mother Nature will take care of the rest. She gets impatient sometimes and sets the concrete in the bags if it isn't kept in a really dry place for storage. There are also some post setting foams. Sika is one brand. Fast2K is another. I've never used any so that's all I know about them.

Not much help there.

[Bert]

I know a guy that has a hidden motion-activated poison ivy mister that sprays a urushiol concentrate on trespassers. His property is clearly marked with No Trespassing signs yet people ignore them or tear them down.

[Henry Jones]

I put up a few more no trespassing signs, but I'm afraid they're all easy to tear down.

I put about a dozen roofing nails in them though! :)

[Unquestionably Confused]

Get them solid enough to bolt/screw onto the posts. Coat them with satin poly and lay them in clear glass from broken bottles. Tough love!

[rbowman]

Can you dig a 3 foot hole? The FS likes 8 foot wooden posts to have 3 feet in the ground. The joke around here is you dig as deep as you can without the use of explosives and saw enough off so 5 feet of the post is exposed. Not that I've ever done anything like that...

[bob haller]

call it a hunch, the other property owners dont really care about the tresspasers..........

because there are some alternatives.

like a fence, guard rail etc at the park end that would likely discourage people driving down from the OPs end.........

why drive down a dead end more than once?

a sign at the OPs end, the other end of this private drive has been permanetely blocked at the park end

mygrandma used to get mad if anyone walked across our yard. she would talk to them about it...

i always believed more people would do it just becuse it bothered her..........

[Henry Jones]

The park rangers took me for a drive yesterday to the end of their property, and there is clearly a locked gate.

So we're in agreement that people were never allowed. What we need to do is sign it better.

It's blocked at both ends of the trail. We can't easily block the road (as per aforementioned post office boxes & thousands of dollars of expense for the gate).

[Henry Jones]

This is all Fransciscian sediments. No granite whatsoever. No rocks. Just hard clay. Digging 3 feet "should" be possible, but backbreaking.

I'm gonna see if I can rent or borrow a hole digger.

[rbowman]

A power auger mounted on a tractor helps a lot. Even that isn't foolproof as we found out when trying to plant trees at the local rifle range. I don't think the kind that are sort of mini pile drivers have enough stroke. They're great for driving metal fence posts but the posts are only 6 to 8 feet or so. Beats the hell out of

although long term use of one of those will give you pecs and triceps like Schwarzenegger.

Be happy you're dealing with bicyclists. When I was with the FS I went out checking gates before hunting season. A lot of the gates are locked then to level the hunting field. Someone took exception to one of them. It was a standard Powder River gate. The posts were 3" steel pipe set in buried 55 gallon drums filled with concrete. I don't think a Warn winch could have done the job. They must have used a log chain and got a running start. The gate was bent into a V shape and the drums were half out of the ground. They didn't get through though.

Must have been kids with too much beer. Real men would have thrown the portable oxy rig in the pickup for those little annoyances.

Then there's the signs... They make great 100 yard targets for sighting in...

[Tekkie®]

Henry Jones posted for all of us...

Yeah, Harry we got all this the first time you posted it.

Spend some time and order the signs and move on to the next crisis.

[DerbyDad03]

Perhaps because the view at the end is spectacular? Perhaps because the view along the way is spectacular?

We've got lots of dead ends in my area. Some dead end at one of our Great Lakes. Some border beautiful parks where you can see sit and watch the wildlife play.

Granted, these aren't private (well, not all of them) but to answer your general question:

There are many reasons to drive down a dead end more than once.