We're selling our house which was built in 1982.
An inspector for the buyer told us GFCI's should have been installed in the bathroom, garage and patio back when the house was originally built.
I didn't think GFCI's were even on the radar screen until the late
80's. Who is right?When were GFCI's first mandated by the NEC for residences?
--zeb
My house was built in 1978 and has them.
I was working as a kid in a hardware store when they became required locally on all resales, reguardless of age. They cost $20 each then. This was '85-'87. We had quite a run on them there new fangled GFI things.
The GFCI was invented in 1961 by Charles Dalziel, a professor of electrical engineering at the University of California. I am looking at the 75 code. It was required in the bathroom and outside then. By 90 they are also required in the basement, kitchen and crawlspaces. I don't have the years between that handy
Cod in NJ required them in all new construction ~last quarter of 1975
- we had a house built and got a CO and moved in first week of November 1975 - it had required no GFI protection - houses that went through electrical inspection after we moved in had GFI protection for all exterior outlets and one in the garage as well as any in kitchen or bathrooms close to water.
I was installing them in the early 70's in Arizona. Once the people moved in and we got a trouble call we were instructed to remove them.
I quit right after that and reported the contractor to the licensing agency
w_tom wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com:
Depending on your location, AFCIs may or may not be required. Not all areas are using the 2002 NEC. See
The AFCI requirement actually appeared in the 1999 code, effective in 2002 but the 99 code only required them on bedroom 120v 15 & 20a receptacle outlets. The
2002 code says all 120v 15 & 20a outlets including lights.
... in bedrooms
"Zeb asked > When were GFCI's first mandated by the NEC for residences?
I recall here the code was waved by local inspectors/depts for a bit because the magnitude of the confusion and complainers for nuisance tripping + the added costs just wore on everybody's sanity quickly. Local Authoritative Politics deal with insanity by postponing the inevitable for a long time, especially if re-election is nearing.
When they first appeared on the market and were required by code, they ran about 120.00 each.
Until that time, a bathroom outlet (a real outlet, not the one integral to the light fixture) was not considered anything special load-wise and would simply be included as one of the many on the area's convenience circuit.
Because of the GFCI requirement and it's initial expense, contractors decided to simply make one GFCI circuit, and connect all of the required outlets to it. (This pre-dates the kitchen GFCI requirement, which BTW only applied to an outlet within 6' of the sink) 14/2 copper NM romex cable cost about 20-30 bucks per 250' rool, so it was cheaper to meet the code this way.
The problem with having one 15a circuit for all bathroom (and outdoor, and garage) outlets is that the most typical item used in a bathroom outlet is a
12-1400 watt hair dryer. With one of those puppies running, there's a maximum of 600 watts to spare before the circuit trips. Fine if there's little liklihood of more than one person drying hair at a time... But then came the "big hair and disco" era of the 80's...I remember wiring 5 bedroom, 3 & 1/2 bathroom homes this way, where homeowners were gladly paying 150.00 extra PER high-hat, yet were clueless as to the inadequacy of their bathroom circuit.
My 1976 house has a GFI on the outside and bathroom circuits. And Idaho is known as first in the nation.
Depends on your jurisdiction. In many areas, they were mandated in wet areas in 1976-78. In some areas that meant bathrooms, kitchens and outdoor outlets, others defined garages and laundry areas as well. Quite a few areas now mandate GFCI's be retrofitted as part of life safety codes whenever a home is sold or remodeled.
But this is a sale of the house where the buyer's inspector has likely reported GFCI's as an important if not required safety change. Expect buyers to ask you to change them out or provide compensation.
Jeff
The sad truth is, there probably *is* a GFCI as the first outlet in the required GFCI circuit, but the inspector didn't find it, or realize it protected the rest of the otherwise normal looking outlets.
There may have been a GFCI, but when he put his tester onto the outlet, the GFCI did not trip. This is just another reason why homes require 'whole house' protectors on AC electric.
Back then, a failed GFCI would never trip - let the human get killed. GFCI designs have recently changed. Either way, the GFCI is required.
How to test a GFCI? Connect a 10Kohm resistor from hot wire to safety ground. If GFCI exists and is working, then GFCI will trip. That is what those GFCI testers (both test cubes and test button on GFCI) do. Inspector did not have to look for GFCI. All he had to do is demonstrate the safety protection. No safety protection means GFCI is missing or failed. Either way, homeowner's responsibility is to correct it.
Today, no reas> The sad truth is, there probably *is* a GFCI as the first outlet in the
In the 30's human life had value too. People were just more sensible and were very careful about using electricity outdoors or in bathrooms and kitchens. Outlets generally were NOT installed in bathrooms or outdoors, they were added to light fixtures by manufacturers to make more money. When this caused deaths and eventually, large jury awards, it became a liability and the manufacturers stopped adding integral outlets to light fixtures.
In those days, stupid people got killed and therefore removed from the gene pool. Society was getting better and better with each and every passing kill of stupid people who did dumb things and paid the ultimate price.
These days, stupid people are ever-more protected by technology and laws and lawywes and sympathetic juries.
And society is headed backwards, IMHO.
Did they have indoor flush toilets back in the 1930's ?
In the 30's a large majority of the population still had no electric power available. There wasn't anything to plug into a bathroom outlet, no electric razors, no hair dryers. And radios were too big and costly to put in a bathroom.
Jeff
Back then, human life was (by today's standards) cheap. Human was expected to know what not to do and to never make a mistake. Today, if a human makes a mistake, then the system must now protect human from his mistake. Back then, human life was so cheap that we expected humans who made mistakes to suffer the ultimate punishment. Today we expect the human to survive and learn from his mistakes.
If a human dr> >>> From: w_tom w snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com
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