What the heck goes into the trash can (as opposed to recycling?)

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Howdy Don,

Thankfully, I have a lot less data than you to move around. It's not a big deal to copy data from a smaller hard drive to a larger hard drive, other than the hour or three that it might take to transfer the data.

Agreed, it was a lot harder to transfer data from cassette tapes or floppy discs. You had to sit there and baby sit each transfer which usually took a very long time.
Thankfully, once it's in digital form it just gets faster and faster to migrate that data to new devices.

Yeah, but it's usually something you can start and walk away from.

It is definitely easier to scan papers as they come in than trying to go back and scan piles of paperwork. I did that recently when I went through our fire safe, took a couple of days to scan them all.

Same here. I still have a box of 35mm negatives in our safe deposit box from our "pre-digital" days. Eventually I want to scan them all but I know that will be a huge undertaking that I never seem to have time for.

I transferred my old LP's to cassette tapes, or simply bought new tapes to replace them. When CD's came along, I transferred the cassettes to CD's, or bought new CD's to replace them again. I probably bought several of my albums two or three times over the years.
Thankfully, once the music was on CD's it was in digital form and I could finally start copying it losslessly.
Some of my older, less popular, music was sounding rather bad after multiple lossy transfers. I found digital versions of many of them on places like iTunes. The rest I just bid farewell to.

We got rid of our VHS tapes long ago, but I do have three VCR's still in storage. Every now and then I get a VHS tape I need to transfer, or a family member asks me to transfer old videos for them.

Actually, I do go through my data from time to time and delete out old files that are no longer needed.
I don't need bank statements for accounts we closed 20+ years ago.
I don't need receipts for stuff I threw away many years ago.
I don't need generic scenery photos from ten years ago if we can't even tell where they were taken.
And so on... I don't do it all at once, of course, but I'll weed old stuff out when I discover it. It doesn't make a huge dent in storage space, but it's easier to find the useful stuff when the useless stuff isn't cluttering everything up.
Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com
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Greetings!
On 5/6/2016 7:34 AM, HerHusband wrote:

Wait until you have to "fsck" a 3T disk. Or, "scandisk"! :<

I was referring to the effort of transferring a "project" to a client (located in another city/state). Nowadays, I can email huge attachments. Or, put a file on an HTTP/FTP server and let them grab it "directly"... at very high transfer rates! Years ago, it was impractical to move many megabytes using modems (and paying for phone calls). Most of the clients I dealt with would look at me blankly if I suggested they set up a UUCP node (so we could benefit from the transport of others)

In the past, the problem has always been one of "organizing" the data. Which drive has which files on it? (when the drives are sitting on a shelf). With my new database approach, I don't have to worry about that! Let *it* keep track of what's where so I can browse through the database instead of having to drag out one drive after another, hoping to stumble on what I'm looking for! Previously, I'd have to "ls -alR" each disk and keep those "lists" on a live machine to scan sequentially in the hope of a file/directory name ringing a bell.

I have *big* boxes of paper documents. E.g., my MULTICS collection is several cubic feet. I'd need a couple of spare scanners as I'm sure I'd "burn out" the ones I have! Esp the ADF's!

If they aren't "too old", *pay* someone to do it for you (a service bureau). In my case, they were really old and even the emulsions were in sad shape. So, a fair bit of TLC was required to get a useful image.

I did that for my "mainstream" LP's. It was easier just to buy them over again. These, however, don't exist in CD form. So, I either listen to them AS vinyl or take the time to do the transfer myself. With a fairly good turntable/cartridge and 24b digital, you can "read once" and do all the fixup and downsampling to 16b in post. But, its still many hours to make a usable "CD" from each LP.

But never with any greater precision than your original choice of digitizing.

I have one located adjacent to my multimedia workstation. I can digitize a tape and then handle the post-processing on that workstation to create the final "DVD", MP4, etc.

I need all supporting information for my business, "just in case". The amount of space I'll save in a file cabinet is nothing compared to the hassle I could face trying to document a KEOGH contribution or verify my adoption of specific new terms of the "plan". We dont need receipts for many of the household items as credit card statements, checks and/or the records of the folks who sold it to us are usually enough (for warranty repair/replace).

Thankfully, I'm not big on photos! I only use them to "document things": this is a photo of the PCB for project X; here is a photo of the roof repair from 2001 (helpful if I notice a part of the roof developing a REPEAT problem); this is what water coming off the back of the house looks like in a Monsoon; etc.

I have a lot of research software/publications in my archive. In some cases, I have the "only" copy (that *I* know of -- google won't find anything; someone LIKE me may have a copy squirreled away) of many of these things. Usually, I have the entire RCS/SCCS/CVS repository on hand so I can actually recreate the project at any point in its existence to see *what* was done to effect a particular change recorded in the log.
Plus, the same with each of *my* projects (hardware and software).
And, of course, all of the tools I've purchased over the years.
If I was starting over, I'd build virtual machines for each "development environment" and just archive those in their entirety. And, "just say no" to oddball hardware that places constraints on WHERE those VM's can be run!
(Unfortunately, historically, this has never been possible; an ICE from vendor A might require a parallel port to communicate with my host while one from vendor B might use a serial port and vendor C a proprietaray "add in ISA card". Given that I'm *building* things, I can't just watch my code execute on a CRT and claim that it works. I need to watch the motor spin and the mechanism move -- and verify that it stops when it reaches the limit of its travel, etc. Or, verify the number of coins dispensed from a hopper are appropriate for the "payout". Or, determine the smallest volume of a blood sample that I can reliably detect. etc. So, hardware is ALWAYS involved in my projects...)
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On Fri, 06 May 2016 09:06:35 -0700, Don Y

I've got afew Fujitsu scanners that have scanned close to a million pages each - much of it double sided - and can scan 20 pages per minute at 30 dpi all day.
Sadly there are no 64 bit drivers for them so I've had to look for replacements. The rubber on the paper feed rollers is starting to return to it's original latex gum consistanct now at about 10 years of age (would have to check the id plates for the actual age) so replacement is becoming necessary even in the 32 bit systems. These scanners were worth over $2200 new and I bought most of them used for around $250 5 nyears ago. (about 25 all together).

35mm slides are no fun - and negatives are even worse. I have a scsi interface slide scanner/strip scanner , but again there are no drivers for current OS.

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On 5/6/2016 6:47 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

If I wanted to be in the paper scanning business, I'd buy a tool appropriate for the job! :>
I scan anything that I want to preserve at 600dpi in greyscale or color (as appropriate to the material) in the hope that *someday* OCR is reliable enough to work "unattended". Too many visual artifacts manifest at lower rates. And, I have no desire to sit and "proof" each individual page coming off the scanner.

This goes to the "archive the OS and tools" comment I made. And, explains why I am reluctant to update OS's "just for the helluvit" (i.e., for no other technological reason). I have no desire to repurchase all my hardware devices (peripherals) AND software tools just to be able to say I'm running the OS du jour.
[Especially when many of those things cost tens of kilobucks and/or are no longer commercially available.]
Panasonic makes some nice scanners if you're interests lie in that area. I know a guy who's been happy with a KV-S3065W (but, he processes LOTS of paper)

Physical paper handling is always the problem. "Rubber" degrades over time. Or, gets "slick" from oils, dirt and grime that it picks up off the surface of the paper. This is particularly true if you are scanning OLD documents that may have seen a lot of use before you acquired them.

I used a "slide at a time" scanner -- though I have a B-size scanner that will support laying dozens of slides on the scanner concurrently. (the slide scanner scans at much higher resolution, though).
The post-processing problem with slides is that it is too easy to get them "scanned crooked". And, if scanned at too low a resolution, you start introducing artifacts as you try to rotate the skew out of the image.
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On Thu, 05 May 2016 23:02:38 -0700, Don Y wrote:

My favourite was some sort of 'backpack' - type tape drive that used the parallel or SCSI port and could hold a couple of Gb.
At that time, CD-ROM was becoming popular for distribution. Everyone had CD-ROM readers, but not everyone had CD-ROM writers.
My boss asked if I could make him a copy of the files on a CD which he needed to return to whoever lended it out. I said yeas, and backed-up his CD to a tape, and of course ran a verify afterwards to be adamantly certain that the tape had an exact representation of every byte on the CD.
During the next few weeks, I ordered a CD writer, and eventually he asks for a re-creation of the CD. I load up the tape, select all the files, and press 'restore'.
Up pops a box: The files you selected are read-only. Please select files to which you have proper access and try again.
--
http://mduffy.x10host.com/index.htm

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On 5/6/2016 7:39 AM, Mike Duffy wrote:

I can recall using VHS video recorders (with a proprietary "black box" that went to/from digital/analog format) as backup media. And, HOPING that the tape was "portable" to another VCR if yours died!

And, you can't use ANY OTHER TOOL (software) to access the files. Someone has invented their own special way of storing the data on their own special device (tape).
The same is true, today, of COTS NAS devices. It *probably* runs some FOSS OS. But, there's no guarantee that you can pull the disk out of the NAS (when it dies) and try to recover the contents using a desktop machine (e.g., with the drive installed in a USB carrier).
Or, if the "boot" drive in that NAS fails, you might discover that you can't simply replace it -- even if you have the files safely stored elsewhere -- as the software/firmware that makes the NAS operational resides in a "hidden" place on that FAILED drive. And, you don't have a way of copying it onto your new drive cuz the old drive is kaput! (ditto if you are trying to upgrade the disk before it fails)
Hence the reliance on having a backup of the *hardware* as well!
(some NAS's will complain if they encounter a "foreign" drive and promptly offer to reformat it for you -- wiping all that precious data in the process! :> )
[I had this in mind when I concocted my archive scheme; I can simply move a drive to another machine and access it as a "regular" drive (if the "appliance" that normally supports it dies). The NAS and redundancy functions are not tied to the drive or its actual location!]
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Thankfully, I don't take any medications, so my drive would be empty. :)
Besides, any doctor or nurse in my HMO can pull up my full medical record, including any medications I might be taking. I can log in here at home and look it up myself as well.
Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com
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On 05/03/2016 09:37 AM, HerHusband wrote:
[snip]

Recently, my biggest computer failed. It was the power supply, and replacing that fixed it. A lot of people would have had to replace the whole thing (and create more trash) and spend a few hours reinstalling everything (or actually a few days of weeks waiting for someone else to do it), and possibly complaining about the lack of backups.
BTW, I'm thinking of the neighbor who became an unwilling victim of Windows 10.

I have sold some too (including my first "PC", with a 8088-compatible V20 processor and 30MB hard disk that won't work with Windows).
[snip]
We have curbside recycling on Thursday, and sometimes the pickup is late. I will look through the mail while standing next to the recycle bin. Most of it goes directly in there.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/
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On 5/3/2016 1:44 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:

I repair the power supply. Many ofmy machines have "special" power supplies. E.g., the power supply for my SB2000 is about the size of most tower computers: <https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0989/9318/products/sun-300-1357-power-supply_large.jpeg?v 57729732> <
http://www.recycledgoods.com/media/extendware/ewimageopt/media/inline/5f/3/sun-blade-2000-usparc-iii-cu-900mhz-p-n-600-7926-02-b4b.jpg
The power supplies in my FX160's (of which I grow fonder with each passing day!) is about the size of an egg roll. <https://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-r4tr0/products/166331/images/243515/3608Large__97042.1457122331.380.500.jpg?c=2 etc. Oddball sizes/shapes and power capabilities.

For me to move to a new computer (even keeping the same OS) is a major headache reinstalling applications -- AFTER sorting out the drivers for the new box. I.e., building my three Windows workstations (multimedia, document prep, eCAD) took the better part of two weeks just to install all the software and sort out licensing issues.
I don't lightly contemplate "upgrades" unless I can see at least a 4-5X improvement (in "something")

We have one of those gi-normous bins on wheels about the size of the regular trash bin. As we don't generate much "waste" (recyclable or otherwise), it often sits for several weeks before we've enough to make it worth the effort to drag to the curb (silly to force the truck to make a stop just to pick up 1/4 of a container full of material!). Trash, OTOH, goes out each week even if 1/10th of a container full.
Especially in the hotter weather!
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On 5/3/2016 4:44 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:

You are so right about computer crash, and the endless work to get all the programs "just right".
Good job, sir, about sending less computer to the landfill. You aren't keeping the economy going, spending money on computers. But you do reduce the landfill waste.
As for me, I'm on about my 4th power supply for this 2007 model frankencomputer. It's alive!
--
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
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On 5/2/2016 10:39 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:

Shampoo bottles, yes. So you want to recycle a snotty tissue? Icky Q tips? That stuff should be incinerated after you wipe your body secretions on it.
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Ed Pawlowski wrote: ...

if the q-tip is cotton on paper stem it's digestible by worms or composting.
songbird
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Hi Arthur,

We try not to buy more food than we'll actually use, so any food waste (carrot tops, banana peels, expired condiments, etc.) is minimal. We don't produce enough food waste to bother with composting, and our waistlines prove it. :)

Our recycling service is VERY picky about what they will accept. Basic stuff like tin cans, cereal boxes, jars, and PET soft drink bottles are fine.
However, they don't want food soiled boxes, frozen food boxes, or those plastic clamshell packages like you get from the bakery. It's unfortunate considering many of these are made of the same material as the ones they do accept. We could recycle a lot more if they would take them, but they have to go in the trash.
Plastic bags from the grocery store get taken back to the grocery store for recycling.

I have very little electronic waste, but when I do I take it to the recycling center.
I've switched to Eneloop rechargeable batteries for most electronics, so I rarely have batteries to deal with. However, when I replace batteries in my UPS I take the old ones to the recycling center.
Our local Home Depot takes old CFL bulbs, and a local hardware store takes the larger fluorescent tubes.

We're on a septic system, so nothing but toilet paper and human waste goes down our toilet.

We have two forested acres so any yard waste just gets tossed into the "wild" areas to decompose over time. Natural composting. :)

I take motor oil to the recycler once or twice a year, along with other used car chemicals (coolant, brake fluid, old paint, etc.).
Tire shops recycle our old tires when we buy new tires.
Large metal parts like hoods or doors go to the metal recycler.

- Plywood scraps, composites, and pressure treated lumber.
- Rags or paper towels soiled with paint or chemicals.
- Small car parts like air filters, spark plugs, alternators, light bulbs, switches, etc.
- Clothing that is not good enough to take to Goodwill (torn jeans, underwear, socks, etc.). Our recycler doesn't accept clothing.
- Mixed packaging materials like bubble envelopes.
- All bathroom waste. Tissues, Q-tips, floss, etc.
Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com
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HerHusband wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 23:20:04 +0000:

I'm curious how they would know what you put in there? We have three trucks that come by on the given day. The driver never gets out of the truck. He pulls up to the bin, the machine picks it up and puts it in the back of the truck.
How would they know what you put in the bin under those circumstances?

Out here you have to pay for plastic or paper bags at a grocery store. It's the law.

I should have mentioned I take a LOT of things to Goodwill, which, in effect, acts like a recycling center.

I'm on septic also. Poop. Pee. Toilet paper. And that's it. Just like you.
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Arthur,

They probably wouldn't know, but the rules are there for a reason. I could ignore it and make it someone elses problem, but I try to abide by their wishes.
They send reminders in almost every bill about not putting certain things in the recycling bin. Every few months or so they also send out a big flyer showing what should and shouldn't go in the bin. Just in case you didn't read the big sticker on top of the blue bin. :) So, it's obviously an ongoing problem for them.
I contacted waste management about the frozen food boxes and was told they are treated to hold up to the moisture of the freezer. I'm not sure how that differs from a milk carton that holds liquid (which they do accept), but they have their reasons.

There have been talks around here about banning the plastic bags, but it hasn't happened so far. So, we collect them and take them back to the store every few weeks.
Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com
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On 5/2/2016 8:56 PM, HerHusband wrote:

In San Francisco there are now garbage police (Trash Inspectors) who will go out and randomly check bins for improper items. You get fined if you are putting things in the wrong bin. <http://www.citylab.com/politics/2013/04/san-franciscos-trash-inspectors-get-earlier-you-do/5191/ .
In my town we have curbside recycling of motor oil and batteries. You have to make it convenient or thoughtless people will dump motor oil in storm drains or put it in the trash.
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They could give a rat's ass what you do with recycled garbage. They're jes collecting revenue. It's what govt agencies do.
nb
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Interesting. We're in a rural area so I doubt they do that here, but I think we would do OK if they were to check.

Yep, we can set out motor oil in milk jugs and batteries on top of the bin here too. We never have gallon milk jugs and I don't want to risk one leaking all over the place by accident or vandalism.
I usually have other chemicals that need to be recycled as well (coolant, brake fluid, old paints, etc.), so I just take it all to the recycler myself. One or two trips a year is easy enough.
Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com
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On 5/3/2016 7:17 AM, HerHusband wrote:

We used to have two pickups a week. Curbside recycling (presort the materials). You could even set out an old piece of furniture (they'd notice it and send someone around to pick it up).
Then, they started getting squirrely. I set some motor oil out in a Clorox bleach container -- clearly marked "motor oil" (my thinking being that the bleach container was far more robust than the flimsy plastic 1G milk jugs). They refused to take it -- until I poured it into a milk jug, the next week.
Of course, *they* simply pour it into the truck and leave the soiled bottle for you! :-/
Another time, I broke down some cardboard boxes and stacked them neatly. Guy got out of the truck to write (in magic marker) that I needed to cut them down to a specific size (just a tiny bit smaller than they were, in their natural form).
(sigh) Fine. I can play by those rules.

For us, it's a block out of our way. Biggest issue is remembering which weekend (first of month) you need to target.
I frequently have batteries out of UPS's that can get recycled, there. Costco used to take them (we're there every week) but has become a bit more finicky. "Fine. I can play by those rules." And, the dregs of the roof paint each year in a 5G pail (they claim I can just toss this in the trash but I suspect not; why accept other paints and claim roof paint is "safe"??)
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cat litter
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