What the gubamint didn't tell you about digital converters

[Jim]

Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.

SOLUTION #1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a satellite dish.

RESULT: More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.

[aemeijers]

Oh, stuff and nonsense. VCR mostly could care less what feeds signal to it. Only thing I have EVER seen that didn't work right was daisy-chaining a DVD player and a VCR, for an old TV with single inputs. It came up in black and white, due to to copy-protect on the DVD.

Just for laughs, 2 minutes ago I hooked a cable from my converter box to the 'line2' inputs on my 5-year old Sony VCR- it worked and recorded just fine and played back just fine. Were you using an RF connection, or video cables? If RF, did you have the converter and VCR set on the same channel? (Usually a toggle between 3 and 4)

I have satt, but it goes out whenever the wind blows the trees, so I also keep a roof antenna. I got the converter as a backup, since my TVs work fine, and I can't bear the thought of junking working equipment if I don't have to. I got the converters now, instead of next year, because of the coupons. And if Dish raises their rates again, my satt may just be going bye-bye.

-- aem sends...

[Alric Knebel]

I know this thread is about converters, but I have to say, I can't believe anybody is still using VCRs. I know some old recorded programs are fun to archive, with the commercial breaks and all intact, and the watching a broadcast show from ten years ago is like time traveling. What I did was transfer a couple of these things over to DVD. I can't see this affection for VHS.

And it should be noted that those tapes will eventually lose their image. Tapes will glitch up, even if you don't watch them.

[gfretwell]

In my case, it is movies that are on VHS and never made it to DVD. BTW the "losing image" problem is very much over hyped. When I finally trashed my last Beta machine I transferred some tapes I made in 1976

[Alric Knebel]

Do you have a lot of those movies on VHS? I stopped buying them when I realized you just can't prevent stuff from happening to them. I remember exactly what movie it was that made me see it was a hopeless collector's investment. It was THE GODFATHER. After a couple of years after initially watching the tape I bought, I watched it again, and sure enough, there was this glitch in it. I owned at that time about twenty movies on VHS. I decided then that the movies wouldn't really last that long, and their was the fullscreen formatting, and image quality just isn't that good, and I could see on the distant horizon this DVD thing coming. So I just stopped investing in the tapes. And to this day, DVDs are still a bang, with all the extra features and the commentary and so on. It's a movie buff's dream come true.

Anyway, you must have some pretty obscure stuff to commit to holding on to them like that. Would you mind if I ask what those titles are? I'm just curious.

[David]

I'm guessing most of these movies can be found online (illegally, though as I understand it it's legal if you own a "hard copy"? Or is that a myth? I'm constantly coming across rare and forgotten stuff on bittorrent. Maybe they're available legally as well if you do a thorough search, though that may be cost-prohibitive).

Thinking back, it seems funny to me how quickly I went from being a frequent vcr user to completely abandoning it (having used it once in the last three years). It's still sitting there but the actual unit looks outdated and the tapes seem big and awkward.

[J]

A lot of us electronically-clueless elderly people on fixed incomes are still using VCRs.

But I fear the same may be the case with DVD recorders that have NTSC.

The people in this thread have said that if the digital converters work with analog TVs, then they should work with analog VCRs and DVDs.

Makes perfect sense. Maybe I screwed up yesterday and will try again today, because the TV reception is GREAT! I was somehow able to get that to work.

Meanwhile a cheap, a DVD/VHS combo (with NTSC) is due to arrive this week. I ordered it before knowing the hassle that was forthcoming.

[Art Greenberg]

Something is amiss in your hookup, or in the setup.

That does not make sense. The output of the converter is NTSC, not ATSC. That's the whole point of having the converter. Your analog TV is NTSC.

[Michael Black]

Why not simply "electronically-clueless"?

Everyone wants to portray older people as inept, but that's just seeing them as they are now. Start subtracting from their age, and you'll find people who were young and capable.

I saw an add for a program to help "seniors" learn to use the internet, and the lower age limit was 55. But subtract 30 and you have a 25 year old in 1978 when small computers were well on their way. It would take quite the person to live thirty years while ignoring computers, and then suddenly want to learn at 55 or older.

I'll be fifty next year. I was ten when I wanted a computer, and they didn't even exist in anything smaller than a minicomputer (and way too expensive) at the time.

The first vcr I ever saw was when a friend bought his first one in the fall of 1980, 28 years ago. That's a long time to adapt.

No, most of this "the elderly are inept" comes from other people.

Michael

[Alric Knebel]

If you're saying what I think you're saying, I agree. I'm 55, and I have no trouble at all keeping up with technological changes, and I'm in fact always excited about new things. I learn about it, and make the most of it. I'm never on the vanguard with it, but I trail just behind that group.

[aspasia]

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:53:52 -0500, Alric Knebel wrote: [...]

[...]

Exactly. And those "other people" do not necessarily have good communication skills. Did you ever notice that some people, when an oldster doesn't comprehend first time around, RAISE their voices, as though YELLING would help! Instead they might think through HOW they have communicated. Such an analysis might reveal that they spoke as though, e.g. to their peer group, using slurred, rapid diction, "in-group" terminology, and an all-round condescending attitude.

It is true that a certain cohort of older people, especially females, were not cultured to use critical thinking, therefore may be somewhat less able to quickly analyze the content and method of a verbal communication.

This is particularly applicable to the older female who, after the death of her spouse, is left floundering because, having been "protected" all through a long marriage, she was never required to develop critical thinking skills.

OTOH, educated, incisive, analytic, unconventional older females -- and their non-sexist male counterparts -- are well-eqipped to embrace new technology, as well as to debunk shallow, media-imposed thinking.

Aspasia

[AllEmailDeletedImmediately]

i've wondered that, as well. it used to be you could make a copy for your own use in order to preserve the original. i'm not sure you can legally do that anymore. the fbi warning would seem to indicate no.

----------------------

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."--Thomas Jefferson

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -- Josef V. Stalin

[Rod Speed]

obscure stuff to commit to

Yep.

Nope.

own use in order to preserve the original.

You are welcome to change the media format of what you own too.

You are legally welcome to change the media format of what you own.

No it doesnt.

[UHF]

Wow, 5 megawatts? That's one BIG transmitter.

I work at a TV station. I'm the transmitter guy, so let me explain some things.

We run 5.5MW ERP on our UHF analog transmitter (that's 5MW video, and .5MW audio). But wait, what's this ERP thing? ERP=EFFECTIVE Radiated Power.

Due to "gain" in the antenna, we appear to make 5MW. The gain comes from "flattening the donut", or, directing the signal towards the horizon rather than in a spherical shape where much of it would go straight up where nobody's watching it.

The transmitter is rated at 106kW video, and 10.6kW aural, for a total of

116.6kW of RF power out of the transmitter. The antenna gain gets us to our 5MW ERP.

AC input power is around 350kW, and that's for an old 1970 vintage transmitter with poor efficiency.

Now, I don't ever see the power bills, but I'm told they run were running around $13,000 a month, and that was close to 10 years ago now.

Hope that helps clear some of the confusion.