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On Wed, 22 May 2013 02:10:46 +0000, Danny D wrote:

Googling, I find the bearing suffixes are confusingly arcane.
There are "old" and "new" suffixes referenced here: http://www.bearing-online.net/search/index.asp?page …3&mtype=&new_model=&old_model=&in_num=&out_num=&h_num=&leixing And single versus double shield codes explained here: http://www.dynaroll.com/shields.asp
Prefixes and suffixes are explained here: http://www.ahrinternational.com/FAG_nomenclature.shtml And this description was found on a.h.r:
D = molded Buna-N rubber lip seal with a steel insert which provides maximum protection against contamination; however, the high pressure of the lip seal itself results in greatly increased torque and friction losses that can cause heat build-up in higher speed applications. The seal material itself is rated to a maximum of 250 °F S = same as D except it's non contact DD = same as D but double shielded M = brass cage V = single, contact, nitrile rubber seal (keeps fluids out) Z = single, staked, non-contact shield of 300 series stainless steel. LL = ? seems to be the same as 2RS ? NR = snap ring and groove RS = single nitrile rubber seal TS = glass reinforced teflon giving good contamination protection VV = double non-contact seal ZS = same as ZZ but retained by a snap wire TTS = same as TS, but double shielded ZZS = same as ZS but double shielded ZZ = double, staked, non-contact, 300 series stainless steel shields ZZA = removable shield 2RS = double nitrile rubber seals DDU = double contact seals (apparently similar to 2RS)
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On Sun, 19 May 2013 07:24:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

Thanks for that pointer; that video shows exactly what my pump looks like, so that's a confidence booster.
They even sell the seal; the price seems to be $26 + $9 = $35 http://www.poolplaza.com/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=STA-101-8550-II&Category_Code Here's what they said in the video: a. Kill power b. Unscrew the big pump clamp knob c. Separate the two halves of the pump d. Remove the diffuser by removing 5 screws e. Remove the impeller by securing the shaft & unscrewing the impeller f. Remove the seal plate by unbolting the 4 bolts on the motor flange g. Remove the ceramic seal from seal plate by pushing it out h. Remove the spring-loaded seal by pulling it off the impeller shaft
I'll see if I can find some seals in stock at a reasonable price locally. Otherwise, I'll order them online & wait.
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wrote:

They have the seals at my pool store but they are cheaper if you go to a bearing supply house or order from a supplier on the net once you get the industry standard number. I wrote the seal number on the pump so I can have one before I take the pump apart..
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On Mon, 20 May 2013 02:11:29 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

That's a good point that the industry standard number is key quality and pricing for the pump seal & motor bearings.
Googling, I find a 6203 bearing for $3; but I'm not sure if there is more standard-size info needed than just the "6203": http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/17mm/6203-2RS10-1
The AO Smith part number is 604005-001 for a double sealed high thrust bearing with ID 0.6693" & OD 1.5750" & W 0.470"
I also find the pump seal standard number is "PS-201".
And the seal plate o-ring is "U9-228A", which I can't yet find the official size for - but which I can measure and then pick up at McMaster Carr.
The diffuser o-ring seems to be a "2-U9-374" based on this: http://www.hottubworks.com/part-2-U9-374-item-hottub-pump-o-ring.php?zmam ’62952&zmas=6&zmac"&zmap=2-U9-374&gclid=CPHNwZH7pLcCFeiDQgodgE8AAg
For o-rings, I find this nice "o-ring store": http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id 159&gclid=CPXGro77pLcCFaaDQgodNRMALw&zenid=ejmsm96avhpbcjgl41kpfot1a4
I'm still a bit confused about 'standard' part numbers; but I'm taking your advice by finding out what they are first.
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wrote:

http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id 159&gclid=CPXGro77pLcCFaaDQgodNRMALw&zenid=ejmsm96avhpbcjgl41kpfot1a4

If you have a real bearing store and you are here on a slow day the counter guy can tell you everything you need to know about bearings. I think VXB is the company I bought my last batch from.
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On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:44:39 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

You're not kidding that bearing suffixes are confusing as all hell!
I suspect for my $150, the Chinese bearings my motor rebuilder put in are likely the cheapest he could get away with. So it behooves us to rebuild our own motors, where we can put in the best bearings.
The trick is to figure out *what* is the best bearing to use!
To get a handle on what the bearing needs to be, I called the AO Smith technical support hotline at 800-262-6484. The lady from Tennessee knew absolutely nothing about bearings, but she kindly read off the specs for me off the motor datasheets.
The bearings are made by NSK and they list the part numbers as: QC1102 1.65HP motor: 6203 double sealed NSK 6203WC3E CLKEEMSM SQ1152 2.20HP motor: 6203 double sealed NSK 62032RSGC3ETDEEMS9
Googling for those NSK numbers, I don't find anything useful. But, when I google the part number (604005-001), I can find it as: $19, 62032RS http://www.inyopools.com/Products/07501352012909.htm
So, now that gives me 6203D, 6203V, and 6203RS as the bearings, all of which are different - which is driving me crazy.
What I'm doing now is reading the NSK booklet titled: "The ABCs of Bearings", located here: http://www.nsk.com/services/basicknowledge/manual/abc/
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On 22/05/13 12:12, Danny D wrote:

If so the 2RS suffix is all you need and is correct for the job being 2 sealing shields for both sides of the bearing (my ex profession) all the others are for special needs. Don't try to be too technical :-)
Cheers !!
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.....Don't try to be too technical :-) .....
+1
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 07:50:06 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

As stated prior, everything is easy once you already know the answer. Until then, you need to be technical to find out the answer.
Here's the answer (as far as I know):

If that's correct, then it's just a list; and there's no need to be technical. However, if that's not correct (and it might not be), then I need to get technical again ... until the list is fleshed out.
At the moment, I am trying to figure out the o-ring trade names.
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 10:05:44 -0700, Oren wrote:

REPORT:
Here's the current factual report for proper rebuilding of such pumps: (Note: I have not figured out how to xref to the o-ring trade size yet.) -----
----- AO Smith QC1102 1.65HP(net) motor: a. bearing, nitrile double sealed (not shielded), 6203-2RS (2) b. thru-bolt (4) 606202-071 1/4"hexhead, #8x32-1" 0.272" 9.375" (9 3/8") SS ----- Sta-Rite Max-e-glas II Pool Pump Repair Kit (GO-KIT38-9) c. 3/4" shaft seal 3/4" (Buna7400-0027S, PS201)(Viton7400-0028S, PS3868) d. seal plate o-ring (U9-228A; may be trade size O-113) e. pre1998: Insert o-ring U9-376 (may be trade size O-240) f. diffuser o-ring (U9-37A; may be trade size O-83) g. trap cover o-ring (U9-375; may be trade size O-12) h. drain plug o-ring (x2) U9-359 Note: The O-ring trade-size guesses are based on the Aladdin GO-KIT38-9.
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 16:49:03 +0800, Rheilly Phoull wrote:

Two points to consider: 1. The answer is easy only when you already know the answer. 2. The rebuilder apparently put in the wrong bearings then.
The rebuilder, for $150, put in 6203D bearings, even though the manufacturer seems to specify 6203-2RS, the difference between a seal and a shield being great (one is a contact surface, the other isn't, which is a big deal for a bearing when things spin for hours every day):

But, now that I know the 6203D is the wrong bearing, and that the 6203-2RS is the right bearing, I do agree. The answer is now simple (now that I know the answer).
It's no longer technical. It's just a part number now.
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On 23/05/13 17:37, Danny D wrote:

You are right of course about knowing the answer, the comment was made as friendly advise. It is common for people new to a task to get too technical and ignore common sense or reasoning. Anyway whatever, you are on the way to the knowing part :-)
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On Fri, 24 May 2013 10:03:13 +0800, Rheilly Phoull wrote:

Thanks for that friendly advice.
The problem is compounded by the lack of details in the part number.
For example, I can get "buna" rubber O-240 o-rings for 50 cents each: (Amazon.com product link shortened)
Or, I can pay $16 (on special!) for that o-ring at the pool supply store: http://www.lesliespool.com/Specials/pool-parts/90002/9000006/58086.html
The problem is in knowledge.
For example, is the sixteen-dollar o-ring made out of the same buna rubber material as the fifty-cent o-ring?
I don't know. Do you? How can we tell?
Note: If we already know the material is the same, then it's not a technical problem; but if we don't know the material - one has to wonder whether you get what you pay for. That is, is a sixteen dollar o-ring the same material as a fifty-cent o-ring?
There's where it gets technical.
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Danny,
Go here and note that the manufacturer's part no. is: AX6060S

Goggle for AX6060S and find this: (Amazon.com product link shortened) note that this listing seems to be for a $15 Hayward branded O-ring alone.
and this: (Amazon.com product link shortened) seems to be the same thing (also through Amazon but from another provider) for $10
but, note that there are kits available, so goggle for ax6060s kit: (Amazon.com product link shortened) this item from Amazon is for a $17 seal kit, and includes the O-ring, a shaft seal, and a lube pack.
or a generic kit for $13 (post paid): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hayward-Booster-Pump-6060-Model-Seal-O-ring-Kit-SPX2700SA-AX6060S-/300791875384#ht_1504wt_863
Might as well spring for a kit and throw in a new shaft seal and the recommended lube while we're at it.
Hope this helps,
pilgrim
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That $16 O-ring represents the cost of the supply chain.
If you want to educate yourself to reasonable level about O-rings & O- ring material apps,' go to McMaster Carr catalog and search on O-rings.
If you REALLY want to learn about O-rings
http://www.parker.com/literature/ORD%205700%20Parker_O-Ring_Handbook.pdf
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On 25/05/13 14:31, Danny D wrote:

will gouge your eyes out on parts that are quite often the same as those available elsewhere cheaply.
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On Mon, 20 May 2013 09:15:46 -0700, Oren wrote:

Actually, I should be clear that I do NOT need a bearing.
What I (probably) need is a pump seal: http://www.horizonparts.net/store/main.aspx?html=shaftseals
But, I *should* replace all the "rubber" in the pump, simply because I have never replaced these parts, so who knows how old they are (some are cracked).
For the pump, I had called Sta-Rite (now Pentair Pool) technical support today, at 800-831-7133x1x1x5. They first asked for the model number on the side of the Max-e-Glas II pump body, which was C76-59P, before giving the part numbers (some of which were clearly wrong).
I had to fix their incorrect numbers, so, I'm not totally sure what parts are needed for the pump - but here is what I have so far: 1. Shaft seal (PS-201 & U109-358SS for sure; may be trade size AS-1521) 2. Seal plate o-ring (U9-228A probably; may be trade size O-113) 3. Seal plate housing o-ring (may be trade size O-240) 4. Diffuser o-ring (U9-37A probably; may be trade size O-83) 5. Basket lid o-ring (U9-375 probably; may be trade size O-12) Note: Trade sizes are based on the description for the Aladdin GO-KIT38-9 for the Sta-Rite Max-e-Glas II pump (post 1998). http://www.poolsupplyunlimited.com/bestprice/AladdinGoKitforStaRiteMaxEGlasIIandDuraGlasIIPumpSealsandGasketsGOKIT389/93869
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Unfortunately, that otherwise nice video skipped a few critical steps.
Googling, I found an annoying set of videos from

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Thepumpguys++Sta-Rite+Maxi-Glas
which intimates you can't secure the shaft without removing both the capacitor and stationary switch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SljOJRwwXKY

Also, they add a silicone seal sealer, which isn't covered elsewhere, but their videos are annoying as hell and difficult to piece together without an index.
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