What's a good way to get rid of rain surface rust on tools left outside

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Toolbox was left outside for a couple of months (forgot about it).

What's the best way to get this surface rust off?

Do you just wipe and soak in oil? Do you use a special formulation?
How do you generally handle surface rust on tools?
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Steel wool and WD40
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:57:28 -0800, Oren wrote:

I wonder how it works.
I looked up naval jelly and it appears to be phosphoric acid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphoric_acid H3PO4 The phosphoric acid converts reddish-brown iron(III) oxide, Fe2O3 (rust) to black ferric phosphate, FePO4 The black ferric-phosphate coating can be scrubbed off, leaving a fresh metal surface.
Here is the Henkel MSDS: http://www.henkelcamsds.com/pdf/553472_235119_Loctite_Naval_Jelly_Rust_Dissolver.pdf Loctite Naval Jelly Rust Dissolver Henkel Corporation, 32150 Just Imagine Drive, Avon, Ohio 44011 Telephone: 800-624-7767 (emergency 800-424-9300) Phosphoric acid (CAS 7664-38-2) 10-30% Phosphate ester 1-5% Isopropyl alcohol (CAS 67-63-0) 1-5% Polysaccharide 1-5% Sulfuric acid (CAS 7664-93-9)0.1-1% Water >50% pH 1.5 - 2.5 Forms Hydrogen, by reaction with metals
The Loctite MSDS shows a slightly different composition: http://www.loctiteproducts.com/techdata-msds.shtml Phosphoric acid (CAS 7664-38-2) 10-30% 2-Propanol (CAS 67-63-0 1-5% Sulfuric acid (CAS 7664-93-9) 0.1% - 1% Silicon dioxide (CAS 7631-86-9 ) 0.1% - 1% Diiron trioxide (CAS 1309-37-1 ) 0.1% - 1% Magnesium oxide (CAS 1309-48-4 ) 0.1% - 1% Aluminum oxide, (CAS fibrous 1344-28-1 ) 0.1% - 1% pH 1.5 - 2.5
The Loctite technical datasheet at the same location says to brush it on metal, leave for 5 to 10 minutes, and wash off.
The Permatex version of naval jelly MSDS says: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61w2z5V6VMS.pdf 10 Columbus Blvd., Hartford, Connecticut 06106, 877-376-2839 Permatex Naval Jelly Rust Dissolver is an acid based thixotropic liquid for dissolving rust on iron and steel surfaces.
Having read all this - I wonder if pool accid (muriatic acid, hydrochloric acid) will work (since I already have lots of that)?
Googling ...
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:47:19 -0800, Oren wrote:

Hi Oren,
Here is the short form of the explanation.
Naval jelly is plain old phosphoric acid (plus a wetting agent such as plain old alcohol) which, when applied to my rusty tools, will convert the rust to 'black powder', which I can then wash off.
Now I know how to clean up the rusty table where the tools lay:
1. Rust on the table

2. Pool acid on the rust

3. All the rust on the table gone

4. New concrete spots are the result! :(

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On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:29:54 -0800, Oren wrote:

Yes. The concrete turned whitish where the phosphoric acid landed after dripping off the table.
While pool acid is not recommended for hand tools (it pickles them but apparently makes the result MORE susceptible to rusting), it seems to work wonderfully for plastic tables.
Tomorrow I will experiment with the following on that rust and on the lime of my shower stall.
1. Vinegar (aka ketchup) 2. LimeAway (sulfamic acid) 3. Lemon juice (citric acid) 4. Coca cola (weak phosphoric acid) 5. Naval Jelly (strong phosphoric acid) 6. We already know muriatic acid works fantastically on table rust!
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Plastic is porous. BTW why don't you spell it poros?
As in color (which should be colour)
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On 02/22/2013 03:05 PM, Danny D. wrote:

HCl is just going to cause rust. I use muriatic to dissolve galvanizing (for welding), and all of the ferrous objects near the bottle end up getting very rusty.
Jon
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"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
On 02/22/2013 03:05 PM, Danny D. wrote:

HCl is just going to cause rust. I use muriatic to dissolve galvanizing (for welding), and all of the ferrous objects near the bottle end up getting very rusty.
Jon
Jon I have found that to be true also. Used muriatic acid in my shop to remove some alkali from an item and the fumes rusted all the tools nearby.. WW
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I don't think using acid is good at first. It would make a good last step to get into holes. If you leave navel jelly on, it with start to build big black marks, much like rust converter. I've done this on car rust spots. It will not rust further once the conversion takes place. Yo can buy phosphoric at the auto store. It's a paint prep. Light rust can be taken off with scotchbrite and soapy water.
Greg
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 23:05:54 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

Had to look up 'thixotropic'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thixotropy
Certain gels or fluids that are thick (viscous) under normal conditions flow (become thin, less viscous) over time when shaken, agitated, or otherwise stressed. They then take a fixed time to return to a more viscous state.
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 10:31:21 -0800, harry wrote:

< warning >... RANDOM rust removal ideas follow ... < / warning>
Seems like the naval jelly & steel wool win out for removing the rust, and then you guys add an oil (I'm not sure why WD-40 over any other oil).
Looking up what else works, I see there is some discussion as to whether hydrochloric acid (HCL) or muriatic pool acid would work since HCl is used to pickle steel (and I have gallons of HCl): http://infohouse.p2ric.org/ref/22/21953.htm
Apparently Hydrochloric acid + iron yields iron chloride.
But, if you don't wash all the iron chloride out, water + iron chloride in a warm environment will regenerate iron oxide (rust) + HCl.
On the other hand, phosphoric acid + iron yields iron phosphate, which, even if you leave it on the metal, won't go back to iron oxide.
So the phosphoric acid is better than hydrochloric acid for rust removal.
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I screwed up when I left the lid off a container of HCl setting on my shop bench. Two days later when I went back in the shop the fumes had caused every iron tool hanging on the pegboard to have a film of rust similar to your toolbox. HCl never comes inside any more.
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You're correct. My dad was a old builder/carpenter and had naval jelly around. I presume for the rust on tools? Gee, you're a pretty smart fella except when it comes to guns <grin>.
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No.
Now back on topic or closer to topic... I need to see if I have any naval jelly around because I could use it right now. I see a bit of rust on a bottom of a built in oven.
Just in case, is naval jelly sold in hardware stores? And I'll probably need some heat resistant paint for touch up on the oven (if I want to be picky about it).
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I'd try wire brush and WD-40. Good an answer as any.
Used to be you could buy rust remover jelly.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Toolbox was left outside for a couple of months (forgot about it).

What's the best way to get this surface rust off?

Do you just wipe and soak in oil? Do you use a special formulation?
How do you generally handle surface rust on tools?
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:34:21 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

So the two answers were wire brush & phosphoric acid to remove the rust, and then WD-40 as a rust preventive.
Speaking of rust preventive, do you generally put WD-40 on your tools or just those that have been wire brushed?
Or can I substitute motor oil for WD-40 (I never understood WD-40).
I ask because I never oiled tools before also.
Is the oil needed because the wire brush removed a thin layer of oxide?
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There's a better alternative these days: EvapoRust. This stuff is absolutely astounding. It's one of those genuine advances, like the discovery of germs.
The stuff is literally like magic. Drop your parts in this non-toxic, water soluble liquid, leave it overnight, and it's as though there was never any rust on the parts to begin with. A very nice side benefit is that your original surface texture remains undamaged, unlike wire-brushing.
I've used Naval Jelly for years, but this stuff just totally outclasses it.
http://www.evaporust.com/
The only drawback is that the part you're trying to de-rust needs to be completely submerged in EvapoRust. You cannot paint it on a surface the way you would with Naval Jelly, so de-rusting fenders and the like is not possible unless you have a stock tank full of EvapoRust.
As for rust-preventive treatment afterwards, just a wipe with motor oil is fine.
--
Tegger

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On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 23:41:04 +0000, Tegger wrote:

Googling, I find a recommendation at, of all places, "The Rust Store": http://www.theruststore.com/Hand-Tool-Rust-Removal-W13C2.aspx
The MSDS for Evapo-Rust says absolutely nothing about what's in it: http://www.evaporust.com/docs/MSDS%20Evaporust.pdf
As for how it works: http://www.evapo-rust.com/howitworks/ Apparently the synthetic chelating agent of Evapo-Rust removes the iron in iron oxide by creating a ferric sulfate complex, and sometimes there is a black residue from the carbon in the steel. http://www.evapo-rust.com/faq/
Googling some more, I find Evapo-Rust is "patent pending" by Harris International, so if we can find the patent, we can figure out what that synthetic chelating agent is.
The trademark was apparently registered by Daubert Cromwell, LLC in July 2009. http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/index.jsp
Googling also found "bio-rust" which may be the same thing. http://www.walter.com/PortalBuilder/Sites/walter/Documents/TDS/BioCircle/BIO-RUST_E.pdf
BTW, some say molasses works the same way: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/body/hrdp_0901_rust_removal_guide/viewall.html
Which might be why the patent was apparently NOT GRANTED even though it was filed in 2000.
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Seems that WD-40 is the word of choice for those that don't know any beter. Cures moles, colds, and tight buttholes.
Motor oil is fine. Most any oil will do to keep the rust down. The oil provides a barrier from the tool to the air and water. There is a product made by LPS that is made to help prevent rust. I think it is called LPS2.
The best way is not to let the tools get wet, and wipe them down every year or so if you do not use them very often.
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wrote:

The advantage of WD40 is you can quickly spray all surfaces in seconds. Even a pile of tools can be sprayed. OK on electric stuff as well. You can get it into all the crevices and holes easily.
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