What is this white scratchy stuff on the sides and bottom of my pool?

[gonjah]

The idea is bizarre. I'll stick with my Polaris. Taking care of a pool is really not that difficult. I think the old KISS rule applies here.

[Arklin K.]

Thanks everyone for your support!

You give me the courage to keep going, even in the face of adversity.

Each hint moves me closer to the solution.

This is a great USENET newsgroup!

[Arklin K.]

I agree with you! But it's too late for me. There is no vacuum attachment anywhere, so the only vacuum that would work would be a wholly self contained one.

BTW, there 'is' an unused port that goes from the middle of the pool to the pump area. It is capped off but I guess I 'could' put a pump there (my fourth) and it would then act as a vacuum. But it would have to have its own filter because there's already a filter loop.

Weird. Very weird. It took me a while to figure it out because everything people told me didn't make sense when I had tested it (e.g., to use the skimmers as a vacuum).

[gonjah]

Looks like some kind of coating.

I don't know. Monday will probably bring out more ideas.

[gonjah]

You gotta go with what you got. Hopefully someone with this type of pool experience will chime in on Monday.

I'd think there is a vacuum attachment somewhere already.

[Arklin K.]

I'm beginning to think the pool was painted blue long ago. Then, over time, the deposits of X (calcium?) built up. The sides then turned, essentially, white.

Everywhere I kept the pressure hose, it turned darker blue ... so I think it's the underlying paint that's blue.

I guess the good news is that I can remove whatever the white stuff is. Everyone is assuming calcium - so I just have to figure out how to remove calcium scale in a pool.

If it's an acid wash, well, then that's that.

[Arklin K.]

Well, truth be told, there is ... sort of.

It's a real bear, but ... I read the Paramount PCC2000 documentation really carefully - over and over and over again ... and I found out you CAN attach a vacuum to the debris canister!

But, it's a bear! You have to fill the hose with water and then very very quickly (before the water leaks out), you shove the hose into the bottom of the debris canister - and - if you're lucky - you get vacuum.

But, it seems you slow down the intake of water so the filter pump almost goes dry - with huge bubbles of caviation or whatever in the pump basket.

So you're constantly going back and forth to the pump to check that it's not dry while you're vacuuming with the hose that keeps popping out of the debris canister and you have to prime the entire hose over and over and over again.

At least that's what happens to me.

Here's where it says you can do hook a vacuum to the debris canister.

It works nice in the picture at that web page - but - in reality, it's a real bear. My kids learn new swear words every time I try to get it going as it's a 3-person operation ...

- Two people to prime the hose

- One person to vacuum

- And another to keep checking that the filter pump doesn't go dry

[gonjah]

I laughed but it's not funny. Vacuuming is a little tricky on my pool too but nothing like that.

I've only done it about 3 times in 5 years because I have a polaris.

[Arklin K.]

Just another datapoint, whatever this white scratchy stuff is, it's all over the stainless steal light bezels ... so it's some kind of 'coating'...

If I opt to acid wash, do I leave the light bezels in the pool?

[trader4]

Why don't you just ask some neighbors, friends, etc and find a decent pool company to come out and have a look? In some cases, being onsite and having years of experience is worth it. Especially before you screw up a major investment like a pool. Also, they may be familiar with particular problems in that area due to the specifics of the water, specific pool construction materials, etc. The $125 or $250 for a couple of evaluations could be the best money you ever spend.

[trader4]

I have to disagree that he has to use only liquid chlorine. There is nothing wrong with using trichlor tablets. I use them without any problem and they are not only easier but cheaper than liquid chlorine. Each has it's place if used properly and you understand the pros and cons of each.

[gonjah]

$50/bucket? What size bucket? If it's the 40# one that's a decent price. Last I checked it was much higher. I paid at least $75 at Costco.

$25 for a few gallons of muriatic acid (?) that sounds high.

Algaecide?..... LOL. What's that? ;)

I've found Lowe's to be a cheap source for calcium chloride but you can get it much cheaper online. I don't need much.

[Arklin K.]

Just had the tap water tested at Leslies. pH 7.6 FAC 0 ppm Free Available Chlorine TAC 0 ppm Total Available Chlorine CH >200 ppm Calcium Hardness CYA 0 ppm Cyanuric Acid TA 150 ppm Total Alkalinity TDS 400 ppm Total Dissolved Solids Pho 100 ppb Phosphates

I have no access to city water testing nor to the water.

[Arklin K.]

Living in the Silicon Valley, as you do, I don't want to waste money on chemicals (we're already paying through the nose for the sun).

I had my well water tested at Leslies just now and it came up with phospates at 100 ppb (which is just about the pool limit) and total alkalinity of 150 ppm which is higher than the suggested range and calcium hardness of >200 ppm which is in the right range for a pool.

The pH was 7.6 but that will change with chemicals.

I bought a few gallons of the 29% muriatic acid (aka HCl) to scrub the pool walls down with - and which will be used, as needed, in the pool.

Liquid chlorine I'll get from HASA in that store in Saratoga you suggested (I have a coupon from the value pack as you suggested ... normally I chuck that entire envelope - but I leafed through it at your suggested and it was there as you noted). Also is on the web site.

I'm not sure how to lower phosphates though ...

[Arklin K.]

I think my regimen, once I fix the cracked Jandy valve and wash the pool walls with the 29% muriatic acid I just bought at Leslies, will be to take all your advice (although some is conflicting).

1. Replace & replumb the Jandy valve area and wash the pool walls with HCl.
2. Fill the pool with the well water (high in calcium at 200ppm which is good for the pool, high in total alkalinity at 150 ppm, and high in phosphates at 100 ppb).
3. Shock with liquid HASA chlorine from the Sunnyvale-Saratoga road store in Saratoga, California.
4. Fill the three floaters with trichlor from Costco or Home Depot (most available chlorine per dollar).

I will need to adjust the pH as needed. I'll need to figure out what can be done about phosphates. I may have to bump the cyanuric acid level up to the bare minimum (it will grow with the trichlor tablets so I don't want to put too much).

And, that should be about it for chemicals (I hope) other than weekly liquid HASA chlorine shock.

[gonjah]

You can just test the tap water

[Arklin K.]

Yuck. Yes. Mine was actually whitish blue after the $150 chemical treatment ... but now it's bone dry!

If you were able to bring yours back to life, should should I be able to. In the picture below you see all the green soupy slop I was shoveling out yesterday. Now it's finally clean of green. I will try to wash it with the 29% muriatic acid I bought from Leslies today.

How does this sound as a wash procedure? Note: I gleaned this from multiple DIYs - many of which conflict!

1. Wear protective clothing & equipment & go section by section.

- goggles, mask, gloves, boots, + respirator (acid fumes are heavier than air & you're standing in a big tub)

- don't acid wash a vinyl or above-ground pool (only plaster in-ground pools)

- acid actually removes a very thin layer of the plaster, which is about

1.5 inches thick to start with

- some suggest washing and brushing with trisodiumphosphate (TSP) before doing an acid wash

- don't let the TSP stay for too long

1. Set up a submersible pump in the deep end to pump out the acidified water

- neutralize water with 2 pounds of soda ash for every gallon of 14.5% HCl

1. Pour one gallon of water into a pump sprayer

- never add water to acid

1. Add one gallon of 14.5% muriatic acid (HCl) to that one gallon of water (I wonder if vinegar will work?)

- half a gallon if 29% HCl (each article has a different ratio - and some even use it full strength!)

- some suggest 8% to 10% final concentration of muriatic acid

- one gallon of 10% solution will cover about 100 sq ft

1. Some say to add dish detergent to the mix

- this DIY says dish detergent is reputed to lessen the fumes

1. From above, spray the walls with water from a garden hose

- start at the deep end and work your way to the shallow end

- one 5-foor-wide or 10-foot-wide section at a time

1. Pour the acid/water mixture down the side of the pool

- having a helper topside is recommended

1. Wait 30 seconds for the acid to do its work, and then scrub the walls with an acid brush

- some say to wait for the bubbling to stop

- all say to not allow the acid to stay for too long

- an acid brush has a wood handle with heavy bristles

1. Rince thoroughly with water

- ensure the submersible pump is pumping the neutrilized water out of the deep end to a safe location

- make sure the water path doesn't etch a channel in the pool (keep rinsing the path)

- some suggest a scrubbing with TSP to neutralize the acid

1. You may need to repeat

[Arklin K.]

I'm pretty sure it's calcium-something. Today I will drop a chunk into 29% muriatic acid (with glasses). I'll see if it bubbles.

I'm not sure 'what' that tells me if it does - but someone suggested it somewhere so that's what I'll do and report back.

[chaniarts]

i'd make sure the respirator is rated for acids, or i'd get a positive pressure respirator. you need a source for clean pressurized air for this, or you could wear scuba equipment.

the fumes will eat anything metal in the area, including things outside the pool.

the plaster is very thin, maybe at most 1/4". underneath that is gunite usually, which is a type of cement. gunite is also affected by acid, so you don't want to eat through the plaster.

the acid will also leave the plaster a bit rougher, which will give algae a place to start forming. that will make cleaning it later harder, so you have to be more careful with your chemical balance.

only if it's dirty.

neutralize it before pumping. make sure it's an acid safe pump, and note where you're pumping it to.

make sure it's an acid safe sprayer

i doubt this

the bubbling will stop when the calcium has neutralized all the acid, and it's no longer acid.

btw: if you do this wrong, you can destroy the pool, and it can kill you. some things are better left to people who have at least done this once successfully before.

[Arklin K.]

Hmm... the well water 'is' the tap water. :)