what is the differences between whole house surge protectors?

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I want to put a whole house surge protector in my breaker box. It is a Siemens and I can use either a QSA2020 or a QSA2020TVSS. One is whole house secondary surge arrestor and one is a transient voltage surge suppressor. What is the difference and which is the better one to get?
Thx Gary
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Both do same. Both connect surges 'less than 10 feet' into earth ground if properly installed. However one has a higher joules rating. Therefore would have a longer life expectancy.
See that attached (coiled) wire? A shorter connection to earth means that protector performs better. Critical to protection is how a protector connects to earth.
If new breakers are not needed, then a better alternative may be the attached (higher joule) protector such as Siemens TPSA9040, which is more than 1000 joules. Others that can also attach to a Siemens box include Intermatic and Cutler Hammer with even higher joules ratings. A Cutler Hammer version is sold in Lowes.
Of course, the short connection to earth ground makes a protector effective. No earth ground means no effective protection. Protectors do not provide protection. Every effective protector diverts (connects, shunts) surges harmlessly into earth. Earth ground means energy from direct lightning strikes is harmlessly dissipated without entering the building. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground which is why some manufactures promote mythical warranties hoping to deceive the nave. Verify that breaker box earthing both meets and exceeds post 1990 codes and that all incoming utility 'whole house' protectors (such as the required one provided free by the telco) also make a short connection to same earthing. A 'whole house' protector that costs tens or even 100 times less money means everything (including critical items such as the furnace and smoke detectors) are also protected. Even the dishwasher is protected. A $10 recommendation costs more money, does not even claim to protect, and is known to be ineffective when one does not worry about irrelevant nonsense such as top posting. One 'whole house' protector is the least expensive and best protector if properly earthed. Provided are some other and maybe better alternatives. Critically import is the earthing of other surge protected utilities also 'less than 10 feet' to the same earth ground. Ground being the reason why whole house protectors are so effective. Higher joules means longer protector life expectancy.
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wrote:

Both do same. Both connect surges 'less than 10 feet' into earth ground if properly installed. However one has a higher joules rating. Therefore would have a longer life expectancy.
See that attached (coiled) wire? A shorter connection to earth means that protector performs better. Critical to protection is how a protector connects to earth.
If new breakers are not needed, then a better alternative may be the attached (higher joule) protector such as Siemens TPSA9040, which is more than 1000 joules. Others that can also attach to a Siemens box include Intermatic and Cutler Hammer with even higher joules ratings. A Cutler Hammer version is sold in Lowes.
Of course, the short connection to earth ground makes a protector effective. No earth ground means no effective protection. Protectors do not provide protection. Every effective protector diverts (connects, shunts) surges harmlessly into earth. Earth ground means energy from direct lightning strikes is harmlessly dissipated without entering the building. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground which is why some manufactures promote mythical warranties hoping to deceive the nave.
Verify that breaker box earthing both meets and exceeds post 1990 codes and that all incoming utility 'whole house' protectors (such as the required one provided free by the telco) also make a short connection to same earthing. A 'whole house' protector that costs tens or even 100 times less money means everything (including critical items such as the furnace and smoke detectors) are also protected. Even the dishwasher is protected. A $10 recommendation costs more money, does not even claim to protect, and is known to be ineffective when one does not worry about irrelevant nonsense such as top posting. One 'whole house' protector is the least expensive and best protector if properly earthed. Provided are some other and maybe better alternatives. Critically import is the earthing of other surge protected utilities also 'less than 10 feet' to the same earth ground. Ground being the reason why whole house protectors are so effective. Higher joules means longer protector life expectancy.
*Exactly. If you have no ground those surge suppressors can be dangerous during a lightning strike. They will absorb the current, but without a place to dissipate it they could explode. http://www.mrelectrician.tv/questions&answers.html#ground
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With no ground, the surge protector is no more or less likely to explode than a circuit breaker, switch, appliance, etc. They don't absorb current, they only pass it along, assuming it has some place to go, ie a ground.
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John Grabowski wrote:

If you would have provided links to information for the suppressors I would have looked. It is not reasonable to expect everyone to find your information.
The best information on surges and surge protection I have seen is at: <http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/LightningGuide_FINALpublishedversion_May051.pdf - "How to protect your house and its contents from lightning: IEEE guide for surge protection of equipment connected to AC power and communication circuits" published by the IEEE in 2005 (the IEEE is the major organization of electrical and electronic engineers in the US). And also: <http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf> - "NIST recommended practice guide: Surges Happen!: how to protect the appliances in your home" published by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology in 2001
The IEEE guide is aimed at those with some technical background. The NIST guide is aimed at the unwashed masses.

w has a religious belief (immune from challenge) that surge protection must directly use earthing. Much of what he writes here is to say plug-in suppressors, which do not have his 10 foot path to earth, do not work.
Unfortunately for w the IEEE guide explains plug-in suppressors work by clamping (limiting) the voltage on all wires (signal and power) to the common ground at the suppressor. Plug-in suppressors do not work primarily by earthing (or stopping or absorbing). The guide explains earthing occurs elsewhere. (Read the guide starting pdf page 40).

Not just the same earthing. The length of the ground wire connecting phone and cable entry protectors to the ground at the power service should be minimized. Even with a good earth connection, a strong surge can lift the "ground" at the house thousands of volts above "absolute" ground potential. Much of the protection is actually keeping the power and phone and cable wires at the same elevated potential. That requires a short interconnection. A ground wire that is too long is illustrated in the IEEE guide starting pdf page 40.
The NIST guide, citing US insurance information, suggests most equipment is damaged by high voltage between power and phone or cable wires.
(If you are using a plug-in suppressor, to limit voltage between wires all interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the same plug-in suppressor. And external wires, like phone and cable, also need to go through the same suppressor.)

Service panel suppressors are certainly a good idea. But from the NIST guide: "Q - Will a surge protector installed at the service entrance be sufficient for the whole house? A - There are two answers to than question: Yes for one-link appliances [electronic equipment], No for two-link appliances [equipment connected to power AND phone or cable or....]. Since most homes today have some kind of two-link appliances, the prudent answer to the question would be NO - but that does not mean that a surge protector installed at the service entrance is useless."
Service panel suppressors do not prevent high voltages from developing between power and signal wires. To limit the voltage you need a *short* wire connecting the cable/phone entrance protectors to the ground at the power service.
=======================> *Exactly. If you have no ground those surge suppressors can be

Actually, the worse the earth connection is the lower the energy the suppressor will absorb. The energy absorbed is the voltage across the suppressor (clamp voltage) times the current times the time. The voltage and time are essentially the same. The current will, in theory, decrease as the resistance to earth goes up.
Neither service panel or plug-in suppressors protect by absorbing energy. But both absorb some energy in the process of protecting.

One error in this source is that plug-in suppressors work by earthing a surge through a receptacle ground wire. They don't. They work primarily by clamping the voltage between all wires at the suppressor.
--
bud--

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My bad. Here you go...
http://www2.sea.siemens.com/Products/Residential-Electrical/Product/Surge-Protection/Protection_at_the_Point_of_Entry.htm?languagecode=en
wrote:

<http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/LightningGuide_FINALpublishedversion_May051.pdf
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Gary wrote:

http://www2.sea.siemens.com/Products/Residential-Electrical/Product/Surge-Protection/Protection_at_the_Point_of_Entry.htm?languagecode=en IMHO Siemens does not have particular good information on these products. They are evaluated under different UL standards which makes the specs difficult to compare. In particular, 175V is not comparable to 500V. Siemens gives no guidance on when you would use one over the other.
I would choose the QSA2020TVSS. It is a TVSS (transient voltage surge suppressor). Most suppressors are TVSSs. [The term "TVSS" is being replaced by "SPD" - surge protective device].
The QSA2020 is a "secondary surge arrester".
The warrantee on the QSA2020TVSS includes devices not included in for the QSA2020. (The text says "Hard wired appliances, including refrigerators, freezers, ... washers, ... dryers, ...." none of which are normally hard wired - probably a mistake.)
For comparing suppressors w correctly says that the energy (Joule) rating indicates the life of the device. While that is quite true, both guides warn that there is no standard for measuring the Joule rating, and unless the same test method is used the specs are not comparable. Because some manufacturers fudge the specs, some other very good manufacturers, unfortunately, no longer provide Joule ratings.
============================================The Siemens site includes: "combined use of quality protectors at the building entrance, and appropriate plug-in protectors at the point of use can virtually eliminate all damage from lightning and surges."
Yet another source that disputes poor w's crackpot ideas about plug-in suppressors.
--
bud--

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Thank you for that insight. My ground is right below the panel in fact less than 10' by wire route. The house is just about at drywall stage. I will look into those other ones you suggested because my main breaker box is full and I would just be swapping out breakers.
wrote:

Both do same. Both connect surges 'less than 10 feet' into earth ground if properly installed. However one has a higher joules rating. Therefore would have a longer life expectancy.
See that attached (coiled) wire? A shorter connection to earth means that protector performs better. Critical to protection is how a protector connects to earth.
If new breakers are not needed, then a better alternative may be the attached (higher joule) protector such as Siemens TPSA9040, which is more than 1000 joules. Others that can also attach to a Siemens box include Intermatic and Cutler Hammer with even higher joules ratings. A Cutler Hammer version is sold in Lowes.
Of course, the short connection to earth ground makes a protector effective. No earth ground means no effective protection. Protectors do not provide protection. Every effective protector diverts (connects, shunts) surges harmlessly into earth. Earth ground means energy from direct lightning strikes is harmlessly dissipated without entering the building. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground which is why some manufactures promote mythical warranties hoping to deceive the nave.
Verify that breaker box earthing both meets and exceeds post 1990 codes and that all incoming utility 'whole house' protectors (such as the required one provided free by the telco) also make a short connection to same earthing. A 'whole house' protector that costs tens or even 100 times less money means everything (including critical items such as the furnace and smoke detectors) are also protected. Even the dishwasher is protected. A $10 recommendation costs more money, does not even claim to protect, and is known to be ineffective when one does not worry about irrelevant nonsense such as top posting. One 'whole house' protector is the least expensive and best protector if properly earthed. Provided are some other and maybe better alternatives. Critically import is the earthing of other surge protected utilities also 'less than 10 feet' to the same earth ground. Ground being the reason why whole house protectors are so effective. Higher joules means longer protector life expectancy.
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Is this the Cutler Hammer one?
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D 3213&Ntt3213&catalogId051&langId=-15&storeId051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber
wrote:

Both do same. Both connect surges 'less than 10 feet' into earth ground if properly installed. However one has a higher joules rating. Therefore would have a longer life expectancy.
See that attached (coiled) wire? A shorter connection to earth means that protector performs better. Critical to protection is how a protector connects to earth.
If new breakers are not needed, then a better alternative may be the attached (higher joule) protector such as Siemens TPSA9040, which is more than 1000 joules. Others that can also attach to a Siemens box include Intermatic and Cutler Hammer with even higher joules ratings. A Cutler Hammer version is sold in Lowes.
Of course, the short connection to earth ground makes a protector effective. No earth ground means no effective protection. Protectors do not provide protection. Every effective protector diverts (connects, shunts) surges harmlessly into earth. Earth ground means energy from direct lightning strikes is harmlessly dissipated without entering the building. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground which is why some manufactures promote mythical warranties hoping to deceive the nave.
Verify that breaker box earthing both meets and exceeds post 1990 codes and that all incoming utility 'whole house' protectors (such as the required one provided free by the telco) also make a short connection to same earthing. A 'whole house' protector that costs tens or even 100 times less money means everything (including critical items such as the furnace and smoke detectors) are also protected. Even the dishwasher is protected. A $10 recommendation costs more money, does not even claim to protect, and is known to be ineffective when one does not worry about irrelevant nonsense such as top posting. One 'whole house' protector is the least expensive and best protector if properly earthed. Provided are some other and maybe better alternatives. Critically import is the earthing of other surge protected utilities also 'less than 10 feet' to the same earth ground. Ground being the reason why whole house protectors are so effective. Higher joules means longer protector life expectancy.
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CHSPMAX is one type which may be the one sold in Lowes.
Other examples of 'whole house' protectors are: http://www.smarthome.com/4870.HTML http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
Best time to plan for surge protection is just before pouring the foundation. Ufer grounding makes even better earthing because it provided both equipotential and better conductivity. If still under contraction and before backfilling means a superior earth ground for even less money.
Telephone line is installed with a 'whole house' protector - for free. And it too is made better by connection to a better earth ground. Cable needs no protector since protection is made by only a wire, short, to that same earthing electrode.
Well, you can add those other protectors. It will marginally increase protection. But better earthing often provides better return on investment.
Voltages - if a protector is rated at 300 volts, that means it actually operates at anywhere from maybe under 200 volts up to 1000 volts. Different surge currents result in that much voltage variation. How to lower a maximum surge voltage? More joules. Increased joules means longer life expectancy AND lower voltage (less energy absorbed by the protector.
Whereas 1000 joules is minimally sufficient for AC mains, 2000 joules is often better for locations with more frequent surge occurrences (ie central FL).
Most people need not go to this extent to make their protectors better. But some example of what some do when surge damage is more frequent: http://www.psihq.com/iread/ufergrnd.htm http://scott-inc.com/html/ufer.htm
http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/ufer.jpg
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westom wrote:

New construction, in general, is required to include a "concrete encased electrode" which is commonly called a Ufer ground. It is a good electrode, but does not provide equipotential.

Doesn't need a protector? The IEEE guide says "there is no requirement to limit the voltage developed between the core and the sheath. .... The only voltage limit is the breakdown of the F connectors, typically ~24 kV." And "there is obviously the possibility of damage to TV tuners and cable modems from the very high voltages that can be developed, especially from nearby lightning." (A plug-in suppressor will limit the voltage from core to shield.)

w has a fetish about earthing. Even with a very good 10 ohms-to-earth resistance, a strong surge resulting in 1000A to earth will lift the "ground" at the house 10,000V above "absolute" earth potential.
Francois Martzloff, who was the NIST guru on surges and wrote the NIST guide, has written "the impedance of the grounding system to `true earth' is far less important than the integrity of the bonding of the various parts of the grounding system." Meaning the phone and cable entry protectors must connect with a short wire to the "ground" at the power service. Much of the protection is that the power and phone and cable wires all float up to the same 10,000V.
--
bud--

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The standard here is for the cribber to put a metal plate with a rod on it (about 12" x 8" and about 3/8" thick under the basement footing with the rod sticking out to connect the ground to. I have an electrical wiring book (I wired the house myself) and the fellow in it says he always puts two (or more) grounding points. He also said he tries to find moist ground. So while I was trenching in my weeping tile and sump pit (my pit is 7' deep ) I pushed a 10' electrode rod into the ground about 8" away from the sump pit and tied the grounds together. I think this makes for good ground.
wrote:

CHSPMAX is one type which may be the one sold in Lowes.
Other examples of 'whole house' protectors are: http://www.smarthome.com/4870.HTML http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
Best time to plan for surge protection is just before pouring the foundation. Ufer grounding makes even better earthing because it provided both equipotential and better conductivity. If still under contraction and before backfilling means a superior earth ground for even less money.
Telephone line is installed with a 'whole house' protector - for free. And it too is made better by connection to a better earth ground. Cable needs no protector since protection is made by only a wire, short, to that same earthing electrode.
Well, you can add those other protectors. It will marginally increase protection. But better earthing often provides better return on investment.
Voltages - if a protector is rated at 300 volts, that means it actually operates at anywhere from maybe under 200 volts up to 1000 volts. Different surge currents result in that much voltage variation. How to lower a maximum surge voltage? More joules. Increased joules means longer life expectancy AND lower voltage (less energy absorbed by the protector.
Whereas 1000 joules is minimally sufficient for AC mains, 2000 joules is often better for locations with more frequent surge occurrences (ie central FL).
Most people need not go to this extent to make their protectors better. But some example of what some do when surge damage is more frequent: http://www.psihq.com/iread/ufergrnd.htm http://scott-inc.com/html/ufer.htm
http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/ufer.jpg
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Electrical code wants a conductive ground. Things that make a better conductor include moisture, finer soils, and more surface area on the electrode, and a wider area of earth included in that electrode 'system'. For example, code requires rods to be separated by six feet so that the surface area of one rod does not 'connect' to the same earth used by the surface of another.
Earthing for surges involves both conductivity and equipotential. An example of equipotenial. Lightning strikes a tree. Therefore a nearby cow is electrocuted. Why? Cow is earthed by separated fore and hind legs. Therefore the connection from cloud to earthborn charges is through sky, through tree, into earth, up cow's hind legs, down fore legs, and then through earth to those earthborne charges.
How to protect the cow? Convert earth beneath that cow into a single point ground. Create equipotential. Surround the cow with a buried loop so that earth beneath the cow is equipotential. Charges that would have passed through the cow, instead, encircle the cow on that buried loop. Now all earth beneath the cow is equipotential - cow is unharmed.
Even though voltage beneath a cow might rise by thousands of volts, no incoming and outgoing path exists. Therefore no surge current exists. Therefore no harm.
People want to think of surge protection in terms of a magic box. The protector is not protection. The protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Therefore your telco (connected to overhead wires all over town) suffers typically 100 surges during every thunderstorm - and no damage. Why? Telcos routinely use Ufer grounds or something equivalent to create even better equipotential.
We can never make the building sufficiently equipotential. So earthing must be more conductive. But we can never make those electrodes sufficiently conductive. So we also make better equipotenial.
Having said this, more conductive electrodes that exceed 1990 Code will be sufficient for most homes. However if we built homes standard with Ufer grounds, a buried loop outside the foundation, or even integrate basement floor concrete rebar into the earthing system, then significantly improved earthing makes a minor increase in protection. That minor increase is essential for any facility that can never ever suffer surge damage.
Again, protection is about electrodes that are more conductive and that provide equipotential.
Surge protection also is about a connection as short as possible because wire is just not sufficently conductive. Whereas fifty feet of wire from breaker box to an electrical receptacle is less than 0.2 ohms resistance; that same wire may be 120 ohms impedance to a surge. Impedance is little changed by increasing wire diameter and mostly decreased by making that wire shorter. Home earthing is typically less than 10 feet. Sharp bends, bundled with other wires, or ground wire inside a metallic conduit will also increase impedance - reduce conductivity.
Polyphaser, an industry benchmark (the niave never heard of Polyphaser and foolishly believe APC, Belkin, or Monster Cable are good), makes a protector that has no earthing connection. Instead, that protector mounts ON earth ground: zero foot earthing connection.
A ground wire up over the foundation and down to electrodes may be adjacent to other non-ground wires, have sharp bends, and too long. Better is to connect that ground wire through foundation and down to earth. Shorter distance. Few or no sharp bends. Separated from other wires. This also makes superior surge protection.
Some examples and suggestions to better understand the difference between earthing for human safety (the Code) and earthing for surge protection. That earthing electrode serves multiple purposes. Code is mostly concerned with human safety. But earthing is best also upgreaded for surge protection - transistor safety.
Install a surge protector to connect each surge to earth ground without any damage to the protector. Joules measures life expectancy. But only those joules used in a surge circuit to ground. For example, a power strip protector may use only 1/3rd of its joules and never more than 2/3rds. Yes, some will play games with that joules number. But the only useful joules are those that actually conduct a surge to earth. A whole house protector typically uses all joules: longer protector life expectancy.

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westom wrote:

It is the religious belief in earthing. Apparently, because it makes him look so stupid, w doesn't want to clearly say what he believes - that plug-in suppressors do not work.
With minimal reading and thinking ability, poor w could read in the IEEE guide how plug-in suppressors work. It is not primarily by earthing. It is by clamping the voltage on all wires to the ground at the suppressor.
Contrary to w's religious belief, both the IEEE and NIST guide say plug-in suppressors are effective.

Well isn't that clear.
Much of the surge protection is from power and phone and cable wires being at the same potential, even if it is elevated far above "absolute" ground potential by a surge. Martzloff has written that is more important than further lowering the resistance to earth. It requires a short wire from the phone and cable entry protectors to the "ground" at the service panel.
Parts of a house in contact with the earth have about zero probability of being "equipotential".

For both a service panel suppressor and plug-in suppressors the Joules that are "used" depends on the wires the surge hits on.
In the case of a plug-in suppressor, high energy ratings are readily (and cheaply) available which make it very unlikely the suppressor will ever fail. (Tests show the amount of energy from a surge that is actually absorbed in a plug-in suppressor is surprisingly small.) That is one reason why some manufacturers can provide protected equipment warrantees. The service panel suppressors the OP was looking at had a 3 year warrantee that did not include any consumer electronics (which is the most likely to be damaged).
--
bud--

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Bud again does what he does routinely. First, Bud follows me everywhere to promote plug-in protectors. Eventually he then posts insults. Bud is a salesman; a promoter for plug-in protectors. He does not have design experience; literally witnessing direct strikes without damage.
Bud repeatedly posts citations that contradict his claims. Quotes from his NIST citation:

What does Bud's plug-in protector do? Without earthing, it must stop or absorb surges. How does that tiny part inside a power strip absorb or stop what 3 miles of sky could not stop? Bud refuses to answer. Instead, Bud claims his protector clamps surges to nothing. His magic box will make a surge disappear? Clamping to nothing will dissipate surge energy? Of course not.
Why does every telco everywhere in the world not use Buds protectors? They need protection that actually works and costs much less money. An effective protector makes a short connection to earth. Telcos use effective whole house protectors. Even Bud's NIST citation bluntly says that on page 17:

Protectors promoted by Bud have no dedicated earth ground. Somehow it will magically dissipate surge energy? Worse, an adjacent protector may even earth a surge destructively through adjacent appliances. Just another reason why surges must be earthed before entering a building. Just another reason why telcos dont waste money on power strip protectors.
From Southwest Bell's FAQ on Surge protection:

Should the reader learn reality, then profits are at risk. So Bud 1) follows me everywhere, 2) to post insults.
If honest, Bud would post a manufacturer numeric specs that claims plug-in protector protection. Bud always refuses. No power strip protector manufacturer claims to protect from the typically destructive surge. No specs exist. An effective protector means protection already inside every appliance is not overwhelmed.
Earth one 'whole house' protector. Then energy from direct lightning strikes is harmlessly dissipated in earth as Southwest Bell and NIST both state. A properly sized and properly earthed 'whole house' protector means nobody even knows a surge existed.
Effective protection means even the protector is not harmed. Many have seen damaged power strip protectors no effective protection. Effective 'whole house' protectors are sized to earth even direct lightning strikes without damage. Numbers that say so posted previously.
Detailed above is how even the US Air Force, Sun Microsystems, munitions storage dumps, FCC, NASA, every telephone company, commercial radio and TV stations ... how surge protection is installed to not have damage. In every case, a protector makes a short connection to single point earth ground; for both conductivity and equipotential. An engineer knows this. A sales promoter will reply with mockery and insults. He will continue posting until he has the last word. He does this everywhere. Sales are at risk.
So where are those manufacturer spec numbers that Bud refuses to provide?
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I'm going to install my satellite dishes, and the instructions say to ground the dish, get I have never seen a grounded dish. Do I need to ground my dish?
wrote:

Bud again does what he does routinely. First, Bud follows me everywhere to promote plug-in protectors. Eventually he then posts insults. Bud is a salesman; a promoter for plug-in protectors. He does not have design experience; literally witnessing direct strikes without damage.
Bud repeatedly posts citations that contradict his claims. Quotes from his NIST citation:

What does Bud's plug-in protector do? Without earthing, it must stop or absorb surges. How does that tiny part inside a power strip absorb or stop what 3 miles of sky could not stop? Bud refuses to answer. Instead, Bud claims his protector clamps surges to nothing. His magic box will make a surge disappear? Clamping to nothing will dissipate surge energy? Of course not.
Why does every telco everywhere in the world not use Buds protectors? They need protection that actually works and costs much less money. An effective protector makes a short connection to earth. Telcos use effective whole house protectors. Even Bud's NIST citation bluntly says that on page 17:

Protectors promoted by Bud have no dedicated earth ground. Somehow it will magically dissipate surge energy? Worse, an adjacent protector may even earth a surge destructively through adjacent appliances. Just another reason why surges must be earthed before entering a building. Just another reason why telcos dont waste money on power strip protectors.
From Southwest Bell's FAQ on Surge protection:

Should the reader learn reality, then profits are at risk. So Bud 1) follows me everywhere, 2) to post insults.
If honest, Bud would post a manufacturer numeric specs that claims plug-in protector protection. Bud always refuses. No power strip protector manufacturer claims to protect from the typically destructive surge. No specs exist. An effective protector means protection already inside every appliance is not overwhelmed.
Earth one 'whole house' protector. Then energy from direct lightning strikes is harmlessly dissipated in earth as Southwest Bell and NIST both state. A properly sized and properly earthed 'whole house' protector means nobody even knows a surge existed.
Effective protection means even the protector is not harmed. Many have seen damaged power strip protectors no effective protection. Effective 'whole house' protectors are sized to earth even direct lightning strikes without damage. Numbers that say so posted previously.
Detailed above is how even the US Air Force, Sun Microsystems, munitions storage dumps, FCC, NASA, every telephone company, commercial radio and TV stations ... how surge protection is installed to not have damage. In every case, a protector makes a short connection to single point earth ground; for both conductivity and equipotential. An engineer knows this. A sales promoter will reply with mockery and insults. He will continue posting until he has the last word. He does this everywhere. Sales are at risk.
So where are those manufacturer spec numbers that Bud refuses to provide?
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Go to your local hardware store and buy an 8 ft copper-clad ground rod. Drive it into the ground. Attach a copper ground wire to the mounting frame of the dish.
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Gary wrote:

Metal dishes and supports must be bonded to the same grounding system as the power system (if the US-NEC is enforced). The length of the ground wire is not as important as for cable and phone entry because you don't have high surge currents (unless you have a direct strike to the dish, which would require much better protection).
--
bud--

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Code requires earthing an antenna (dish) and also earthing the antenna lead where it enters a building. For surge protection, a dish is earthed to withstand direct lightning strikes (without damage). Cable is earthed to the single point earth ground (also used by AC electric and phone) so that destructive surge currents need not enter that building.
Of course, code is written for human safety. But the same earthing performed for human safety is also more carefully installed to provide transistor safety.
Correct, many dish installers do not properly earth the dish. But code requires that earthing for human safety.
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wrote:

Code requires earthing an antenna (dish) and also earthing the antenna lead where it enters a building. For surge protection, a dish is earthed to withstand direct lightning strikes (without damage). Cable is earthed to the single point earth ground (also used by AC electric and phone) so that destructive surge currents need not enter that building.
Of course, code is written for human safety. But the same earthing performed for human safety is also more carefully installed to provide transistor safety.
Correct, many dish installers do not properly earth the dish. But code requires that earthing for human safety.
Thankyou, I will do that. I am mounting them in the "A" on the side of my house opposite my attic. My attic has lights in it. Can I just run a wire to bond to one of the metal electrical boxes? Is it code to run a ground wire directly into the electrical box to tie the sats and coax bonding to?
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