What affects water heater efficiency?

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This is Turtle.
Davey , Putting a cellinoid valve with compression fitting on the gas feed line up in a burn area is not really a good ideal. When the compression fitting are heated up then cooled off over a few years they could loosen up and let the cellinoid valve just fall off and when the gas valve open for to heat the water. It would fire up about 1/2 the room with burning gas shot from out from under the water heater by a open pipe. Also how long do you think the plastic cellinoid valve coil is going to last being heated up all the time at burner flame temperatures.
I can't remember for sure but didn't we have a conversation about you using 3" PVC pipe for to vent a gas water heater with and you said it worked fine for you. Correct me here Dave about this !
TURTLE
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'This is Turtle. Davey , Putting a cellinoid valve with compression fitting on the gas feed line up in a burn area is not really a good ideal. When the compression fitting are heated up then cooled off over a few years they could loosen up and let the cellinoid valve just fall off and when the gas valve open for to heat the water. It would fire up about 1/2 the room with burning gas shot from out from under the water heater by a open pipe. Also how long do you think the plastic cellinoid valve coil is going to last being heated up all the time at burner flame temperatures.'
ME: Turtle, Its called a 'Solenoid' Valve and i never had any problem with the ones i put on my water heaters over the years ; if you dont like compression, then they come flare also. The solenoid coils i used were metal encapsulated, not plastic...further, are you aware that there are plastic parts on the water heaters gas valve ? If you have the burner shield on and the outside cover on the water heater... there is not much heat that escapes. Hold your hand there and see what i mean.
'I can't remember for sure but didn't we have a conversation about you using 3" PVC pipe for to vent a gas water heater with and you said it worked fine for you. Correct me here Dave about this ! TURTLE'
ME: I dont remember this conversation with you specifically , but, i do have a Power Vent water heater that is designed for 3" PVC , so, thats what i use in conjunction with an 'electric' damper utilizing end switches. I would never suggest using PVC on a regular water heater. Is there any particular motive you have in trying to belittle or defame me Turtle ? If so, how about if we start fresh and become friends : we both have alot of trade experience that would be useful to ourselves and others.
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Dave , if-when the damper sticks shut you get flue gas in the building, not up the chimney, Right. A mechanical damper retrofit without saftey shut off controls ?? I don`t buy your logic, and have never heard of that option offered as OEM or aftermarket.
Sounds like dangerous advise , post facts.
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'Dave , if-when the damper sticks shut you get flue gas in the building, not up the chimney, Right. A mechanical damper retrofit without saftey shut off controls ??'
ME: Rans, YEP ! Back in the 1980's during the Energy Crunch, mechanical flue dampers were very very popular . I personally never had one that stuck closed . Often, installers would put in draft diverter spill switches ...but most installers did not.
'I don`t buy your logic, and have never heard of that option offered as OEM or aftermarket.   Sounds like dangerous advise , post facts. '
ME: You dont have 'to buy my logic'...cause it isnt ' my logic ; do a google and youll soon find these as an aftermarket item. All my wholesalers still sell them. In fact, i have about 5 or 6 used ones in my shop -- so, please dont be arrogant by inferring they dont exist.
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You ain't got a clue, do you?
'Dave , if-when the damper sticks shut you get flue gas in the building, not up the chimney, Right. A mechanical damper retrofit without saftey shut off controls ??'
ME: Rans, YEP ! Back in the 1980's during the Energy Crunch, mechanical flue dampers were very very popular . I personally never had one that stuck closed . Often, installers would put in draft diverter spill switches ...but most installers did not.
'I don`t buy your logic, and have never heard of that option offered as OEM or aftermarket. Sounds like dangerous advise , post facts. '
ME: You dont have 'to buy my logic'...cause it isnt ' my logic ; do a google and youll soon find these as an aftermarket item. All my wholesalers still sell them. In fact, i have about 5 or 6 used ones in my shop -- so, please dont be arrogant by inferring they dont exist.
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Only after the fact do you include saftey switches in your pitch.
After what you said was proven unsafe.
Over the last 20 yrs alot of things have been proven unsafe, you are one of them.
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'Only after the fact do you include saftey switches in your pitch.     After what you said was proven unsafe.     Over the last 20 yrs alot of things have been proven unsafe, you are one of them.'
ME: I havent installed any mechanical flue dampers in a long time..but, if i did today, it would include spill switches. If anything 'was proven' unsafe...it would be directed toward the manufacturers of mechanical flue dampers..and not myself. Im just the messenger Rans. Now then....about our truce ; what is holding you back ?
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'You ain't got a clue, do you? '
ME: Yes Sir..sure do. Have you been in business for yourself for 19 years and in the hvac trade since 1974 ?? O. I. C. ....
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I'm not as old as you. That should tell you that I do know the current ideas, not the old ineffectual ones....
I'm also not ever called a hack. You are. Constantly.
You ideas can really contribute to getting someone killed.
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This is Turtle
Fella , I was just asking about something that I felt was dangerous to do by putting a mechnical Damper on a residentiual Hot water tank not set up for it. The only way to get it set up is to buy a commecial type hot water tank and you will have the controls to do it. Now your going to pay up to $10,000.00 for a commercial hot water tank to get it set up to do so. If your going to put a damper on a residentiual type hot water tank , well Fella , You like living dangerously for sure.
Yes I know your going to say you have a company that tells you that the damper is ok if everything works fine. now if the damper fails to open and flame comes on. Your house is going to get to test your CO detector that I hope you have installed. Living on the edge every day is not my ideal of safety living.
TURTLE
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'I was just asking about something that I felt was dangerous to do by putting a mechnical Damper on a residentiual Hot water tank not set up for it. '
ME: Theyve been on water heaters for many decades, as well as 65 percent efficiency gas furnaces. They are especially popular in Germany. ( Disclaimer : I didnt make them, never have, do not own stock in manufacturers that do make them STILL , and i am not responsible for them appearing in my Wholesalers catalogues).
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'Fella , I was just asking about something that.....'
ME: My name is Davey. Not 'fella' !
'now if the damper fails to open and flame comes on. Your house is going to get to test your CO detector that I hope you have installed. Living on the edge every day is not my ideal of safety living. TURTLE'
ME: If i were installing one, id do it with spill switches on the draft diverter along with a gas line solenoid valve such as what the manufacturer Effikal (sp.?) offers. Having a workable CO detector is mandatory for safe living and it should be tested monthly.
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TURTLE wrote:

using 3"

fine for

I believe the PVC fluepipe on the non-powervent water heater was Tom.
%mod%
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This is Turtle.
Now that you say that i do seem to remember him somewhere in the middle of it. that was a good one to think about having a pvc vent pipe on your non-power vent type hot water tank. Maybe dave was over at Tom's house too much breathing the vapors.
TURTLE
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That will help.

Makes sense in the summer, but in the winter, not a big deal if the heater is in the house. As the water loses heat through the jacket, where does it go? Into the space that you are heating anyway.
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'Obviously we're not going to replace it, but I'm curious about what could have been done to make it more efficient. Perce '
ME: The areas of a water heater that can affect efficiency are :
1. The amount and type of insulation around the shell.
2. The burner design and how it disperses the flame.
3. The design of the vent turbulator that runs down the center of the tank.
4. How and where the cold water enters the tank.
5. How much sediment has collected in the bottom of the tank.
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Hay HACK fella..stay away from those kids. OK?
Interesting post from Dave (aka decencyadvocate)
<<<From: snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net Group: alt.discuss.clubs.public.christian.gays Subject: im looking for a friend Date: Mon, Jan 26, 2004, 6:13pm (PST+2) Organization: WebTV Subscriber im a single male no children but did lose one to God many years ago im a christian but have recently found myself fighting with homesexual demons in my mind i am around children often and worry about my feelings for them too id like someone other than my minister to discuss this situation with dave>>>
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