Does the flue feel hot when the heater is on (hint: be careful testing this)?
Anything to take the heat that goes up the flue and instead applies it to the tank water increases efficiency. Nothing practical a homeowner can do as a retrofit, 'tho.
previous
The insulation within the heater itself can make a big difference. You can buy fiberglass insulation wraps for hot water heaters that can help, but that is about all you can do. Some heaters are particularly vulnerable to sedimentaiton, but that affects the long term efficiency, not what is printed on the sticker. The insulation, type and location of the heating elements, and the temperature control systems all contribute the efficiency. Unless you were to dismantle yours and another unit it is not so easy to say exactly why one is more efficient than the other.
Exactly. And also, be careful how deep you bury the water heater when you install it. Most manufacturers will void the warranty if you bury the heater deeper than 12'. If you have sandy soil, the limit is 15', I believe.
We have a RuudGlas PaceMaker gas water heater (installed by a previous owner) that never feels warm on the outside, yet the EnergyGuide label on it shows it as using about 35% more energy than the most efficient one of similar type.
Obviously we're not going to replace it, but I'm curious about what could have been done to make it more efficient.
Perce
'Obviously we're not going to replace it, but I'm curious about what could have been done to make it more efficient. Perce '
ME: The areas of a water heater that can affect efficiency are :
'You can buy fiberglass insulation wraps for hot water heaters that can help, but that is about all you can do.'
ME: Actually, there are other things you can do : Add a mechanical flue damper to the water heaters flue pipe. And/or, install a 3/8" compression solenoid valve in the burner tube and have an automatic timer open it based on the times that you actually will be using hot water (all other times it will be off). I do this and run my gas water heater 1 hr. just before i cook and shower in the evening.
Dave, a "mechanical damper" you say, Who makes them and why are they not standard equipment? Or a factory option?
So if the Mechanical damper fails what keeps Co from pouring into the house and killing you?? . Are they Code anywhere?
Now a motor driven damper with a saftey shut off I have on a boiler. But mechanical with no saftey?
Sounds like unsafe BS Dave.
If you want your water heater running at its efficency rating and want more , insulate it, instal a thermal brake on the water input and output, flush it and be sure burners are burning correctly. And insulating pipe will help you to be able to run lower temps. Or better, I put in a Tankless gas , 5 yr payback my bills are that much lower.
This is Turtle.
Davey , Putting a cellinoid valve with compression fitting on the gas feed line up in a burn area is not really a good ideal. When the compression fitting are heated up then cooled off over a few years they could loosen up and let the cellinoid valve just fall off and when the gas valve open for to heat the water. It would fire up about 1/2 the room with burning gas shot from out from under the water heater by a open pipe. Also how long do you think the plastic cellinoid valve coil is going to last being heated up all the time at burner flame temperatures.
I can't remember for sure but didn't we have a conversation about you using 3" PVC pipe for to vent a gas water heater with and you said it worked fine for you. Correct me here Dave about this !
TURTLE
That will help.
Makes sense in the summer, but in the winter, not a big deal if the heater is in the house. As the water loses heat through the jacket, where does it go? Into the space that you are heating anyway.
'Dave, a "mechanical damper" you say, Who makes them and why are they not standard equipment? Or a factory option? =A0=A0=A0=A0So if the Mechanical damper fails what keeps Co from pouring into the house and killing you?? . =A0 Are they Code anywhere? =A0=A0Now a motor driven damper with a saftey shut off I have on a boiler. But mechanical with no saftey? =A0=A0Sounds like unsafe BS Dave. '
Rans,
Theyve been around for many decades. They are installed on millions of water heaters and older furnaces, and, i dont know of one village that doesnt allow them. No B.S. Rans....check it out if youre not familiar with it.
'If you want your water heater running at its efficency rating and want more , insulate it, instal a thermal brake on the water input and output, flush it and be sure burners are burning correctly.'
ME: Agree.
'This is Turtle. Davey , Putting a cellinoid valve with compression fitting on the gas feed line up in a burn area is not really a good ideal. When the compression fitting are heated up then cooled off over a few years they could loosen up and let the cellinoid valve just fall off and when the gas valve open for to heat the water. It would fire up about 1/2 the room with burning gas shot from out from under the water heater by a open pipe. Also how long do you think the plastic cellinoid valve coil is going to last being heated up all the time at burner flame temperatures.'
ME: Turtle, Its called a 'Solenoid' Valve and i never had any problem with the ones i put on my water heaters over the years ; if you dont like compression, then they come flare also. The solenoid coils i used were metal encapsulated, not plastic...further, are you aware that there are plastic parts on the water heaters gas valve ? If you have the burner shield on and the outside cover on the water heater... there is not much heat that escapes. Hold your hand there and see what i mean.
'I can't remember for sure but didn't we have a conversation about you using 3" PVC pipe for to vent a gas water heater with and you said it worked fine for you. Correct me here Dave about this ! TURTLE'
ME: I dont remember this conversation with you specifically , but, i do have a Power Vent water heater that is designed for 3" PVC , so, thats what i use in conjunction with an 'electric' damper utilizing end switches. I would never suggest using PVC on a regular water heater. Is there any particular motive you have in trying to belittle or defame me Turtle ? If so, how about if we start fresh and become friends : we both have alot of trade experience that would be useful to ourselves and others.
Dave , if-when the damper sticks shut you get flue gas in the building, not up the chimney, Right. A mechanical damper retrofit without saftey shut off controls ?? I don`t buy your logic, and have never heard of that option offered as OEM or aftermarket.
Sounds like dangerous advise , post facts.
Right HEAT MAN seems daves exaust vent mechanical damper is Unsafe, unless you have something inteligent to say , which you havn`t , Yet. What is your point, if you actualy have one. Seems like You have no clue. So post some facts.
Posting Drivel , It seems you and dave are two of a kind.
If you posted the drivel on the Wall and were talking about Dave, you lost what little respect I had for you. That's especially if he's your "Hvac guy."
He knows nothing about it and neither do you.
You just ain't gotta clue...
Read this:
This is Turtle
Fella , I was just asking about something that I felt was dangerous to do by putting a mechnical Damper on a residentiual Hot water tank not set up for it. The only way to get it set up is to buy a commecial type hot water tank and you will have the controls to do it. Now your going to pay up to $10,000.00 for a commercial hot water tank to get it set up to do so. If your going to put a damper on a residentiual type hot water tank , well Fella , You like living dangerously for sure.
Yes I know your going to say you have a company that tells you that the damper is ok if everything works fine. now if the damper fails to open and flame comes on. Your house is going to get to test your CO detector that I hope you have installed. Living on the edge every day is not my ideal of safety living.
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
HeatMan , Ransley was getting on HVAC Fella for making stupid statements about dampers on hot water tanks. Then you here get on Ransley for getting on HVAC Fella's ass about doing stupid things.
You must have missread the post or something for everybody gets on HVAC Fella for the wild ass reply he gives. What Happen ?
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
I'm not much in getting into a pissing contest but Dave is mixing the words of Ransley in with his by the way he post and replys. Dave is mixing up things to get one of you to go at the other with this mix posting together.
TURTLE
Well dave I posted this at "The Wall" , link provided by Heat Man, and talked to other people. You are as often you do, recomending more dangerous information . If it was done properly with saftey lock out, the cost would be absurd, never giving a payback. But you don`t even consider the saftey lock out.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.