Well Storage Tank Set-up and Installation

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I purchased a home a couple years ago that was a foreclosure home. It is way out in the country and runs on a well system. The well is about 365 ft deep and has a 3HP 230V 60hz submersible pump set at about 350 ft down the well. Up a hill about 300 ft from the well head is a concrete and gravel pad where a water storage tank used to sit. I am told that the previous owners removed the storage tank and booster pump system when they left the home during the foreclosure process. The first year I was in the home I was too busy moving in etc to worry much about the outside landscaping needs. This year I repaired all the landscaping water lines etc and started to water everything the way it should have been and discovered an issue. The well pump is capable of pumping about 20 gallons a minute from the well but the well appears to only be capable of supplying about 7 to 8 gallons per minute. Therefore it pumps like crazy for about 15 minutes and then begins to starve. I had a well company come out and look at the set up. They tell me that I really need to re-install the storage tank up on the hill in the original location. They tell me that the price for that install will be about $6000.00. I would love to just pay them the money and have them do the work but I simply don't have that kind of cash. The main reason they suggested the storage tank is that we are in a high fire danger area and without the stored water our home would most likely be lost as the fire department would not have enough water to fight the fire from our current well set up. Currently, the well pump line feeds a pressure switch and then two pressure tanks that then feed the house and landscaping supply lines. I am very handy with most home projects like many people who live out in the country. I have a friend who is a contractor and we can perform most plumbing and electrical projects. I am trying to determine if this project is simple enough that I can do most of the work myself and trim the cost down substantially from the $6000.00. I know the tank, pump, fittings, and controls will cost some but hope I can perform the labor and cut the costs. The biggest problem I have is that I have never seen one of these systems set up and don't know exactly how to plump or wire the controls etc. I can do the work but have been unable to locate any type of design drawings to show me how to set up the system so that it will function properly. The old pad foundation where the original storage tank was located is up a hill about 300 feet from the well head and is elevated about 30 to 35 feet higher than the well head and pressure tanks. There is an abandoned 1" black poly tubing that runs from the well head area to the base of where the old storage tank was. There is a 2" PVC line that runs from the well head area to the base of where the old storage tank was. There is also electrical conduit running between the well head area and old storage tank but no wire. I am figuring the 1" black poly tubing was most likely the fill line directly from the well head to the storage tank. The 2" PVC line most likely came out of the bottom of the storage tank and down the hill to feed the booster pump. Then I think the booster pump would be plumbed into the pressure switch and then the pressure tanks which in turn will supply the house and landscaping with pressurized water. I will need to purchase and wire in a pumptec from Franklin controls to protect my well pump from trying to continue pumping when the well water level runs low. I originally thought about switching out the well pump with a smaller pump rated at less than the 7 to 8 gallon rate the well can supply but the well company representative said since the well pump is in good shape and working fine it would be an added expense that isn't necessary at this time. I also will need to purchase and wire in a good control system to sense the water levels in the storage tank and turn on and off the well pump etc and provide alarms if water levels get too low or too high. In addition to some misc fittings the other major components I will need are the storage tank and a booster pump. I know this is a long post but wanted to provide as much info as I thought you would need to provide assistance with this project. Thank you!
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On Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:44:01 PM UTC-7, Coccopine wrote:

The big cost will be the tank but you may be able to find a used one somewh ere.
Can't help much as haven't worked them but below is one way to do it, may n ot be the professional way though.
Basic set up is to run your well pump on a timer to limit how long it can r un without running out of water feeding the tank. A float switch in the ta nk to tell the pump when the tank is full. The booster pump and tank shoul d come in swell under a $500, basically all you need is a shallow well pump at the tank and another pressure tank plus associated electrical controls. .
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On 7/21/2013 10:14 PM, Harry K wrote:

Another way to stop the pump when the well water level is drawn down to where the pump is is a "pump saver" http://www.symcom.com/documentation/spec/pdf/SS_233P.pdf this is one version, the company makes others. And other companies may make them.
The "pump saver" looks at the pump current (or might look at the actual power). When the water level drops to the pump, water is no longer being pumped and the current goes down (power goes down much more). The "saver" senses the current drop and turns the pump off for a set period, allowing the well to 'recharge'.
You need some way to prevent the pump from running when the well level drops to the pump.
Sounds like there was a storage tank. Then a booster pump would pump that water into a relatively small pressurized tank for the house. The booster pump is controlled by a pressure switch on the pressure tank. The pressurized tank is likely there, and the well pump now feeds it.
Depending on the layout, you may be able to gravity feed to the landscape out of the storage tank.
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On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:29:07 AM UTC-4, bud-- wrote:

If I were doing the setup, I would consider having a typical 100 gal tank for the domestic water usage and having the big storage tank serve the landscape, fire prevention needs. That way you don't have say 3000 gal of water sitting around for bacteria etc to grow in that then feeds the house itself.
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On 7/24/2013 9:53 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I like that idea. Then you would need additional controls - maybe a solenoid valve from pump to each tank. And check valve and antisiphon valve to storage tank.
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On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:53:23 AM UTC-7, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

<snip>

" I would consider having a typical 100 gal tank for the domestic water usage" ???
I don't think I have ever seen a 100 gal tank used for domestic water.
Harry K
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On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 02:44:01 +0000, Coccopine

What you need first are;
1) Pressure tank of at least 120 gal size ($550) along with a pressure switch to control the pump on/off action.
2) The pressure switch gets mounted on the water line as close as possible to the pressure tank. The wiring goes from your house to the pressure switch to the pump. Set the pressure tank bladder pressure (pressure in the bladder when the thank is empty of water) to about 3 psi less than the pressure switch turn-ON pressure. So, if you set the pressure switch to turn on the pump at 40psi, set the bladder pressure to about 37psi.
That will give you a basic full functioning well water supply system once you have performed any repairs on the associated water piping. Get the above done first.
When you basic system is functioning then you can tackle a water storage tank. You can get a 2500 gal above ground tank for about $1500. I think all you will need for the storage tank is a high level float valve with a pipe (and valves) connecting to your water supply system; and appropriate sized outflow pipes at the bottom of the tank (3/4" to supply your house and 2" to supply the fire department).
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Just to clarify, you are lifting water 365' to the well head and another 300' to the gravel pad where the storage take will sit. At that 665' level, if you want something like 50 psi pressure at the outflow then you are in effect adding another 100' to the 665' for a total effective lift of 765'. That would require a 2 hp pump to deliver 10 gpm, so you are well set on the pump size.
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On Monday, July 22, 2013 7:02:27 AM UTC-7, CRNG wrote:

Just a nit pick. Your 365' lift is only operable when the well is "pumped dry". It will be less than that when the pump first kicks in. Less by how much? depends on the static water level at the start and increases as the level decreases
Harry K
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Coccopine wrote:

You don't mention what the capacity was of the old tank.
Have a look at this:
http://www.farmshow.com/view_articles.php?a_id !3
http://www.watertanks.com/pioneer_water_tanks.asp
Do-it-yourself tank:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/water-storage-tank.aspx
Where are you located?
In other words - does your tank need to be insulated from sub-freezing temps?
Plastic/poly tanks in the range of 4,000 gallons seem to cost about $6k. For most sizes, you're paying roughly $1 per gallon:
http://www.tank-depot.com/product.aspx?id12
Depending on how durable this tank needs to be, you could also use an above-ground swimming pool as a tank:
http://www.poolspausa.com/pools/GardenLeisure_EclipseLX.htm
18-foot diameter pool would set you back $2200, give you 7300 gallons of storage.
How large is the existing pad?
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On Sunday, July 21, 2013 10:44:01 PM UTC-4, Coccopine wrote:

Some thoughts. I think there are some separate issues here that need to be thought out. First, you've been living there for some time and the well apparently was fine for supplying domestic water needs. Looks like it only became a problem when you went to watering the landscape. If that is true, why couldn't you re-zone the irrigation so that it matches the well? You could have three 2 gpm heads per zone. As long as you water from say 12am to 6am, when other usage would typically be very low, it should work.
Next is how important that tank would be for fire protection, insurance premium reduction?, etc. I would really look into that. My first thought would be that it might not really do much. My thought is that if a forest fire does arrive, you may need a huge amount of water and a tank size that holds 500 gallons, etc might not really do much good. Again, I have no experience on this, but there must be some guidelines as to sizes of tank vs probablility of it actually saving your house. Also, that probably explains why there is a 2" line coming back down the hill. The 1" is fine for supplying the house, but wouldn't do much for a fire truck, etc.
As far as making it all work, I would think you could find examples online. I would think it's just a matter of a switch that responds to water level in the tank that opens a fill valve. The fill is sized so that it's within the rate of the well. You then need a pump to deliver the water at pressure when needed. I would think that pump could be located where convenient, ie at the bottom of the hill, doesn't have to be at the tank.
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message

< http://www.watertanks.com/category/6/
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Coccopine wrote:

(...)
Has anyone else noticed that "Coccopine" (the OP) hasn't played any role in this thread since he started it?
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On 7/25/13 6:38 PM, Home Guy wrote:

Not until now. That really doesn't seem all that unusual though.
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replying to Dean Hoffman , Coccopine wrote:

Hello to everyone and thank you. Sorry for not repsonding sooner but I have been out of town for a couple of days. I have decided to simply go ahead and hire the well company to handle my well issues since I don't really have the time to mess with it. Thank you for all your suggestions and advice.
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Coccopine wrote:

Reminds me of that article that was posted here a few months ago about how men these days aren't "handy" any more.
It talked about the excuses that some men gave to a real handyman they hired to do the job for them. One of them was that "I don't have time to do it myself". Ya - right.
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On 7/26/13 7:11 AM, Home Guy wrote:

I can easily see scenarios where lack of time is a real issue. People who travel in their jobs might not be home long enough to deal with things in a timely manner. I work for a farm related business. Sixty, seventy, and eighty hour weeks aren't all that unusual for people in farm related businesses in the summer. That doesn't leave much time for R&R and necessary chores. Most home projects can be delayed until slower times at work but some can't. Then there are people who volunteer their time to civic organizations. More power to the ones who keep their commitments.
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Dean Hoffman > wrote:

Also there are some plain lazy buggers for sure. I am not, LOL!
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Dean Hoffman wrote:

There are few enough americans that have a full-time job anymore.
There are fewer still that earn enough per-hour to compensate for what this sort of job will cost. I don't see a job like this storage-tank thing that requires skilled labor, special equipment, etc.
His tank could be a friggen $500 above-ground swimming pool for christ sakes.

Aren't farmers the LAST people to hire someone when they can do it themselves?
I doubt the OP is a farmer...
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Home Guy wrote:

Modern farmers do the farming with computers. Most every thing is automated.
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