Weird thing about roof material price quotes:

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- Joseph Meehan -

- Nehmo - Of course not all homeowners are jerks. But a homeowner is less likely to understand the ethics of buying from a supplier. Eg: One of the managers of the Home Depot in Merriam Kansas, told me HD was going to change its policy regarding the return of paint sprayers. He said too many homeowners were buying the machine only to return it after the job was done. (These people could have rented the machine, but they would have had to pay to do that.) The manager told me he's developed an intuitive sense about this. He said if he talks with the customer before the purchase, he can even predict if the customer will return a machine.
He said he doesn't have this problem with contractors because contractors need to keep the machine for the next job.
The conversation later led to him admitting it was unfair to charge homeowners and contractors the same price.
--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
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Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:

My first sales job was in a large discount store selling cameras. The lease company I worked for also had the sporting goods department. One day while filling in at the sporting goods department a customer came in to buy an expensive set of golf clubs. While I knew nothing about golf he knew what he wanted. He was also drunk as a skunk. I tried to discourage him, but he wanted them. I figured he really did not know what he wanted, he was just picking the most expensive and I really did not know enough to be sure.
After he left everyone said I should expect that they will be returned within 10 days. His wife would find out and send him back when he was sober. I guess he was not married and too embarrassed to return them, or maybe he liked them, but they never came back.
--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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Actually, at least in our area, contractors (the scumbags) are the worst ones for pulling this sh*t on the home centers. Roofing contractors in our area especially will get a bunch of jobs lined up and hire on a bunch of their drinkin buddies to knock the work out. They will go to the home center and buy a couple extra roof nailers, shoot the roofs, and then return the nailers when they get caught up.
You would always see TONS of recon. nailers there as the returned nailers, perfectly fine, would have to be sent out, reconditioned, and then sold for pennies on the dollar (for the manufacturer) with full warranty.
My philosophy is as long as the home centers can force the manufacturers into accepting, without question, ANY return it serves them right. I actually hope it continues at an escalated level as then the manufacturers will have no choice but to tell the home centers to screw themselves as the manufacturer cant absorb a 100% return policy as foolish as this.
These practices will either result in the tool market going to sh*t or the home center taking the hit themseleves rather than being able to pass it on to the manufacturer. As soon as the home centers have to bear the brunt of their own return policy it will end instantly or they will go out of buisiness.
Either way, while I dont do it, I say scam the crap out of the home centers and maybe we will be lucky enough to sink a few of them.
Mark
Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:

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Mark & Shauna wrote:

I watched a similar drama unfolding at the return desk at Home Depot yesterday--a rather dusty and malfunctioning nailer, a nice clean box, and a receipt from two days ago. The authorities were attempting to check serial numbers when I left.
>==> Reply to the name above at poboxes dot com <==<
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Nehmo Sergheyev wrote: snip
One of the

returns. Answer: In some cases they return them to the shelf to sell at full price. Example, a toilet returned after being installed complete with smashed wax ring in place. A sewer line auger already used and retracted into its holder. A piece of trim molding with the nails still in it. Those are just a few I have stumbled upon myself. I have not seen any used paint sprayers but that would not be a surprise.
In the case of the toilet, the box was open and I wanted to measure it to see what size lids fit it. I discovered its condition and brought it to the attention of one of their "floor walkers" who said, "Isn't it nice that HD has the policy of taking things back if the user is dissatisfied!" She then took no further action far as I could see, so it is waiting on some innocent victim to buy it and probably bring it back for a repeat.
On the other hand, I was looking for a new entry threshold complete with the rubber insert. Every one they had of the size I needed had been opened and the insert was missing. Stolen by the homeowners? Conclusion: Check to see that what you are buying is not used and has all the parts.
Stoney
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<lots of whining snipped>
I'm sorry that you didn't get the contractors discount until you lied. I don't suppose you'd like to tell me what is fair to charge by the hour, what percentage I can make on materials, AND how I'm going to pay my payroll, worker's comp, liability insurance, unemployment tax, social security tax, income tax, and save a few pennies to live are you?
Here is my opinion: You fit into one or both of these categories either now or during your life - Self-employed or worked for a company. If you were/are self-employed, you made too much money and are now bitching about someone else trying to earn a living. If you work/worked for another company, your companies owners charged too much because they were able to pay you a wage and make their living at the same time and now you're bitching about someone trying to do the same.....
- Robert
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Wait a minute bub... I never lied. I discovered the "discount" by accident when I ordered over the phone by item #, when I asked to confirm the price, to my surprise it was bout 30% less than when I first called, and had sounded like a neophite. What was I to do at that point? say, "no wait, you should be charging more"? I caught on to their game, and played it. It is clear that who gets teh discount, and who doesn't is based on an informal arrangement, don't fault me for fitting in with the old boys, and getting a good price. If the store wished to, they could have some sort of card, or something that woudl identify me as a contractor. They don't, so don't blame me. Also, I never say anything about being a contractor, and if I were asked I would say I was not, but they assume I am, and freely offer the discount. Why should I turn it down? (BTW, I assume more of a "contractor's errand boy" type deamour, not actually trying to be a "contractor". I come in friendly, talking about the weather, tar stained clothes, they assume I am "on the job".) I

What are you talking about? I am just a homeowner who gave up 2 weeks of my vacation time, and many hours reading, even attending a class at the community center on how to do a roof, and did my own roof. I hold no ill-will against you or any honest contractor, but I was able to do it myself, why shouldn't I?

No, I am actually a media executive, and sit behind a desk all week doing my job, just like all the rest of this land's working stiffs. I just choose to spend my hard earned money as wisely as possible, and got some pride out of doing my own roof. You need to chill out Robert.

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It could be that the discount is not for contractors, the discount is for people who know the item numbers and all the details of their order, and don't require "customer service". When you called and asked a lot of questions, and needed to be educated about what you needed and how to place an order, you got one price. When you called and "were in a hurry", had all your info ready to go, and were able to place your order in a professional manner, you got a different price. Seems straightforward to me.
You see this in a lot of businesses. For instance, go to an automobile dealer, ask lots of questions about different models, ask for a test drive, ask more questions about financing, ask questions about options, test drive a different model, and see what price you get.
Now, fax a dealer and give them the model and all the options listed by item number, so all they have to do is type the order in for you, and see what price you get.
(Better yet, tell them what price you want ($200 over wholesale), and say, "Will you type in the order for me?" $200 to type in an order isn't bad.)
Personally, I think it's un-ethical to go to one dealer and get all the customer service, and then place your order at another dealer to get a better price. But many people do it. Just like many people will go to a "real" hardware store to ask questions about what they are trying to do, and then buy the materials at a big-box or on the web.
--- Chip
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life long employee or a sociopath. Self employed people in any field (who are not also sociopaths) generally "get" this on the first shot because it happens to everyone eventually. This is not shopping for the best price like you would do in a supermarket or electronics store. Read the quote again. "go to one [full service] dealer and get all the customer service". This is taking up someone else's time, time they are hoping to be paid for. Time their boss has factored into the price of the product. Then you walk out with that work under your arm and bring it to their warehouse ethic competition. This is an issue similar to "intellectual copyright". If you buy bootleg software you are doing the same thing. "When the revolution comes - everything will be free" (1970's joke).
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Unethical?.....Geez BUSINESS is unethical! Case in point: Enron, Worldcom. SBC, Martha Stewart, Tyco.............
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Charles H. Buchholtz wrote:

Well, I think a 30% difference in price is WAY too much to charge for taking 5 minutes to help someone order the right product.

I get very good prices because I won't buy until I get a good price. To me a good price is from invoice up to maybe $500 over invoice. With all of the "under the table money" these days, the dealer's still make a good profit even when they sell at "dealer cost."

I'd probably pay more this way.

I agree and this is roughly how I buy cars.

I agree again. This is a real scumbag approach in my book.
Matt
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I have the same problem with delta! I think they suck!
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What was I smoking? I meant Moen. I replace the cart and washers in my kitchen and 3 months later it leaks. "buy it for looks buy it for life" I should write them and have them send me a new one!
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You are comparing apples and oranges. Shopping for the best price is not being a scumbag. Going to the supplier who has higher prices but more knowledge and asking them all sorts of questions *knowing* that you are going to buy from the cheaper supplier who cannot answer any of those questions... that's what's scummy.
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Yes, I can see why it might be a little bit over your head.
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It's common practice to give building contractor's a price break on building materials. Usually they want you to *prove* you're a building contractor, but hey, sounds like you got lucky -- L.

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Contractors are regular customers and DIYs are generally one time customers. A DIY has a ton of questions and needs a lot of handholding whereas contractors know what they want. Thus the difference in price. Makes sense if you think about it.
If you have ice dams you may need to increase the insulation in your attic. Snow on the roof may be melting from heat escaping from the house and refreezing once it hits the eaves. Adding insulation is usually the fix for this.
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