Weird thing about roof material price quotes:

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I did my own roof, and learned a strange thing about getting price quotes.
When I would call the roofing supply store and gave myself up as a do-it yourselfer(by my lack of knowledge on subject) , they seemed to add about 30% to the materials quote.
I learned this by accident, as I called the store, and described, using general terms what I was looking for, and got a price quote. They gave me item number, etc. When I called back a couple of days later, I was in a hurry, and must have sounded like a contractor ("need 14 square of GAF shingle item #XXXXXX delivered rooftop to house at location") and he gave me the price that was about 30% less. From then on, for all materials for the rest of the job called the roof store (of the same owner) farther from my house, talked to the guy, got item numbers, etc. Then I would drive to the closer store, walk in in my roofing clothes, rattle off the item #'s and amounts, and they would give me a cheaper price.
It didn't seem all that fair to stiff the little guy, but it is their business and they can charge what they want. I was just glad I caught on, and used thier own unwritten rules to my advantage.
BTW, 3 layer tear-off, roof was 14 square, a couple of valleys, 2 story, read a lot before I started, got my brothers to help, took a week, saved probably 2 grand. Still look up with pride, had 2 winters of icedams, and it is holding strong. My proudest household achievement.
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Rotation Slim wrote:

maybe two.. if you are in the business they you will be coming back pretty often if you get the right price.. the store only has a once in a lifetime chance of making any money off of you...
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So per-sale profit should be determined by how many times you'll make that profit?!?!
What a lame-ass rationale that is.
Let me know when Wal-Mart and Home Depot start giving discounts based on what you've spent with them in the last year or two.
If a 25% discount is good enough for contractors then it's good enough for the homeowner doing his own work. Otherwise, the distributor should refuse to sell to anyone without a biz license instead of trying to play both sides of the street.

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They do. Every business does. The person who buys in volume gets a discount over the person who does not. What stinks about this particular situation is that this roofing company has no idea if this person is a volume account or not. It's not like they asked for his account number or something.
Dimitri
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Arrgghh! You made me look up at my bulletin board and I just noticed that my Home Depot 10% contractor's discount coupon expired 3 days ago.

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BP wrote:

It should be a crime to put Home Depot, Lowes, and Contractor, together.
heh, Mark
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Wait a minute. If you did your own roof, you shouldn't have had any ice dams. Ice dams are from a poorly ventilated roof. Period. Heat gets in, can't get out quick enough, melts the snow from the underside, it dribbles down to the point where it can refreeze, and becomes an ice dam. And ridge vents are not the best answer in areas that get a really big snow load.

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That's not always true... I've seen ice dams on southeastern valley exposures. The sun heats up the roof in the morning, starts melt, then due local conditions (trees, orientation), the roof goes back to shade and cool and freezes back up. Some pretty nice dams can build up as the weather adds new snow to the roof.
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Yes, I've seen that. But that effect is from a thaw-freeze cycle, with pretty much uniform conditions on the roof. Not what I see as an ice dam, in which ice forms from a refreeze condition as plenty more melted snow makes its way down the roof to encounter the dam.

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It doesn't particularly matter how the dam gets there - only that it does. We have an extremely well insulated roof; almost continuous soffit and ridge vents, gable vents, tons of attic insulation, etc.
And yet we ALWAYS get dams on the southern side of the house, and never once on the north, west, or eastern. Not much you can do about the sun, after all.
- Rich
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I have had them 2 winters in the last 6, both times I think it was unique weather that contributed to them, as both times EVERYONE in the area was having problems with them, the stores were all sold out of Ice Melter. I was happy that I had put 3 courses of Rubber ice shield, so I had protection up six feet up the roof instead of just 3.
When I did the roof I left the ventilation exactly as it was, actually improving it as I cleaned the birds nests out of the vents and replaced them. I did not however cut any new ones.
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Yes, if the snow completely covers the ridge vent, it obviously can't do its job till the snow is clear enough to allow ventilation. The old timers had the right idea with cupolas if they used them for venting in the winter.

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I built a new house last year and had a continuous ridge vent installed. I went up into the attic when it was about 50 out and it was about 90 up there. The ridge vent doesn't seem to allow enough air flow. I will install louvers on the gable ends this summer.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)

"Yes, if the snow completely covers the ridge vent, it obviously can't do
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How much soffit venting? I've seen plenty of places that had a ridge vent, but pathetic or nonexistant soffit venting. In order for the heated air to go out, it has to be replaced, since it isn't going to pull a vacuum.

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The soffit is 12" wide, continuously vented vinyl. The house is 40' long, so it has 80' of vented soffit and 40' of ridge vent.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)

How much soffit venting? I've seen plenty of places that had a ridge vent,
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Both ventilation systems rely on moving air (wind) to function. In a ridge vent, the wind blowing over the top of the roof creates a negative pressure vortex on the leeward side which sucks air out of the attic, replaced by cooler air from the soffit vent. The air travels up the rafter bays and keeps the roof deck cold. Gable vents rely on cross ventilation to work, (although they do exhaust hotter air into the cooler outside air in the general area near the vent) but if the air is not moving (in one vent and out the other across the attic) then they too will be ineffectual (but better than nothing). Keep in mind that if you cut in gable vents they will negate the ridge vent's functioning. The ridge vent will suck air from the gables rather than the soffit. The ugly truth is that despite all the thought and effort put into roofing systems over the years, which has significantly improved upon the old system, mother nature still looks upon puny humans as pathetic jokes. If the conditions are right (the perfect storm) you will get ice dams regardless of all your careful planning. The idea here is to minimize their occurrence and effect.

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Wouldn't natural convection keep the air moving regardless of how the wind is blowing?
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- Rotation Slim -

- Nehmo - I use the same technique. When I take a plane, I dress in a pilot's uniform. When I go to the emergency room, I wear a white lab coat and a stethoscope. If I have to go to court, I use a black robe. Works every time, but I'm wondering: how do you dress when you're shopping for a hooker?
- Rotation Slim -

- Nehmo - To complete the act you should have tired to get them to front you the materials until after the "customer" pays you. You could've offered them a posted-dated check perhaps.
- Rotation Slim -

- Nehmo - I'm all for people doing things themselves. But I wouldn't advise someone to do the tear off theirselves. Fourteen squares three-layers won't kill you, but the focus of the job is more concentrated where it should be when laborers do the tear off.
And are you getting visible ice (not snow) on your roof?
--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
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"but I'm wondering: how do you dress when you're shopping for a hooker?" Like a married, middle aged, cubicle drone with kids, of course! You should lose the cowboy hat and snakeskin boots.

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Rotation Slim wrote:

And your local auto repair shop gets a "discount" price when buying the parts they put on your car and the grocery pays less for milk they buy to sell to you. It is the way things work.
Their regular customers who know what they want and take a lot less of their time and often buy larger qualities get better prices. It makes sense. Other than the DIY places, most supplies of construction would rather not serve the general public.
--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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