we bought a new house, and got a bad roof job about 3 months ago, what do we do?

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On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 11:21:16 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

"your best insurance is an insurance broker"
Dealing direct with an insurance company through an agent (like StateFarm, Geico, Allstate et al) they hold all the cards. Dealing with a broker - particularly a fairly large broker with a large "book" of insurance puts some of the cards in YOUR hand. The broker works for YOU, not the insurance company. An agent works for the insurance company - not for you. Generally speaking, this means the broker goes to bat for you carrying a BIG BAT. If the insurer gets picky or nasty and doesn't cover what they should cover, they stand a very real chance of not only losing you as a customer, but possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in premiums when the broker decides to move a sizeable percentage of their "book" to another company who is more likely to "play ball" when a client needs help.
I spend about 20 hours a week in a pretty good sized insurance brokerage where my youngest daughter is also Assistant Operations Manager, and I see that bat weilded on a pretty regular basis. If one company won't play ball, there are another 5 or six waiting in the wings for most policies. There are some risks that only one or two will cover, or be competetive on - and some companies that they only write policies with as a "last resort" because they are more difficult to deal with. - but generally if the CSR gets on the insurance company's case, things happen - and pretty quickly.
A phone call goes like "how many millions of dollars of insurance do we have with you? --- and how many claims have you had to pay out? --- and you want to risk that kind of business by dragging this out for another month or making the insured jump through more hoops?? I didn't think so.. We will be expecting the check in the mail. You have a good day too -"
Or getting insurance for something a bit out of the ordinary for one of the "programs" - let's say well drillers. The broker calls the insurer of record and asks "can you cover -------? The insurer says "it's not something we run into every day - let me check." - and comes back with something like "What ro YOU think - what is this similar too and what kind of rating would you be comfortable with - you've got a pretty good record on this program - your loss ratios are REALLY low - how does $X per thousand sound to you"?
And the "uninsurable" has just been insured - often for far less than the customer was expecting - all because he's got the weight of a good broker (and an affinity group) on his team.
A good broker is worth his weight in gold when you need him!!!
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On 2/3/2016 5:56 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Yes. Most of us only see homeowners and high price auto insurance. A good broker makes sure you have the insurance you need for your circumstances. Twice I was in situations with large (multi million $) losses that would have put us out of business if not properly insured.
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On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 5:56:05 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

When you use the title "agent", you need to be more specific. There are "captive agents" and "independent agents".
According the Investopedia, an independent agent does not work for "the" insurance company.
"Definition of 'Independent Agent'
An insurance agent that sells insurance policies provided by several different insurance companies rather than a single insurance company. An independent agent receives commissions for the policies that he or she sells, and is not considered an employee of a specific insurance company."
Granted, a "broker" may be even more independent than an independent agent, and a broker, by law, has a fiduciary duty to the client. However, in some cases, depending on the relationship between the policy holder and the independent agent, some courts have ruled that the agent was acting as a broker and could therefore have a fiduciary duty to the client.
In any case, my agent is an independent and offers insurance products from a number of carriers. The mere fact that she called me to tell me my rates were going down by ~40% is enough for me to continue our relationship.
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On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 16:53:21 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

AKA an "insurance broker"

You are dealing with a "broker" - a wise move.
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On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 11:35:59 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Not necessarily. There are actual 3 types of people that sell insurance:
Captive Agent Independent Agent Broker
As noted here (and mentioned in my earlier response) there is a difference between a Broker and an Independent Agent.
http://gindin-insurance.com/insurance-agents-vs-insurance-brokers-whats-difference/
BTW...I have already sent them an email about the typographical errors in the section entitled:
"Insurance Agents Vs Insurance Brokers: What's the Difference?"
They need to replace the word "agent" with "broker" and change "are" to "is" in the first sentence of the second paragraph.
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That was common with roll roofing, but not worth doing with shingles. Penny wise, pound foolish.
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On 2/3/2016 7:10 AM, philo wrote:

Quite a proclamation. What if they had storms the next day with 50 mph winds.
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On 02/03/2016 09:16 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I thought of that but decided to condemn the OP anyway. Since the identical post was made a few years back I was quite confident that it was indeed a troll.
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philo wrote:

Actually some are meant not to live in a single dwelling. They don't seem to know what is going on around their place. Some years ago, a couple won a nice size bungalow on a raffle. All their life, lived in an apartment. They were so excited to move into nice house. They did not even last one year living in a house. After ~3 months they went back to old apartment. Claimed keeping a house was such a headache.
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On 02/03/2016 09:53 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:

Very true, some people just cannot deal with it.
I am very glad I can do most of my own repairs but have enough sense to hire a qualified contractor when necessary.
I've been in my house 35 years and it's been long paid off. The rents have gone up so high around here that if I did not own my own home I could not afford to live in this neighborhood.
My taxes are less than half of what a small apartment goes for right next door.
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On 2/3/2016 10:53 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:

Yes, a woman at work has lived in rentals her entire life. Next year she will retire and intends to go into senior housing subsidized by the state. Not what I aspire to, but she seems to be happy with her choice.
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OTOH, my friend from Brooklyn has lived in apartments all his life. After he'd beea lawyer for a few years, he wanted to buy an apartment in Brooklyn Heights (where Patty Duke and her identical cousin lived) and walk across the bridge to work, but his fiancee had lived in Manhattan all *her* life and wouldn't agree to that. They ended up with an apartment on E. 57th and 1st, but because he didnt' work steady, coudlnt' find a job all the time, with the glut of lawyers in NYC, they sort of ran out of money and about a year ago moved to a southern state, where they are renting a small house (with their boxes all over the place) until they can buy a house.
But they (or maybe he) have so many demands, they can't find a house that meets all of them. Partly because the kind of house they want wasn't really built where they live now. I think they want a garage. They have lots of money now, because their apartment in NYC cost and sold for much more, even deducting the unpaid mortgage, than a house in the south costs.
They're in their late 50's and early 60's and I told them to buy a one-story house, for when they can't make it upstairs. They're both slim and healthy, but even slim people can get to the point where they can't climb stairs. Anyhow, I think he's ignoring me on that.
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How did you know it was the same? You just remembered it?

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On 02/03/2016 11:02 AM, Micky wrote:

Yes, I have an exceptionally good memory for anything that is of zero importance!
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ROTFL. That's better than once remembering those things and now forgetting.
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On 02/03/2016 12:18 PM, Micky wrote:

Bugs the hell out of my wife , when we are driving she has to remind me where we are going right in the middle of some story I'm telling her that took place when I was three years old.
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I was wondering about that. Shingles fly away/off even properly installed. All by itself, it'll act like a sail in the wind...,LOL!
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wrote:

Who said they were properly installed. That was part of the complaint? There's nothing people can't do wrong, especially if they have no experience or they drink too much.
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Ir if the roof was "stapled" - particularly if the wrong staples were used, or the decking was chipboard. Staples don't hold worth stink in chipboard sheathing. (they are bad enough in plywood)
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On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 00:44:01 +0000, Leslie

Despite that, you probably have to give him a chance to do so. If you were the contractor, you'd want a chance to correct your workmen's mistakes.
Although if you really don't want him to, I suspect you can be demanding or annoying enough that HE refuses to. I don't mean calling him a thief, or insisting he comes on Tuesday afternoon between 2 and 3. But if you give him a list of flaws, real flaws, not ones you've made up, and say you want them all fixed, he may say no. To go into more detail I need to know what is wrong with it. What about it looks bad?
Have other people like friends or neighbors agreed with you that the whole job looks awful? What's wrong with it? The rows are crooked? Different colors? What? What kind of roof? Asphalt shingles?
How many years are the shingles guaranteed. When you get an estimate from the other companies, get one for the same quality shingle. If it was 25 years, then get 25 years.
So the question is, Is he capable of fixing it right? Is every part of the roof bad or only parts? Did he tell you, or will he now, of other roofs he's done. Look at them. Knock on the door and make sure he actually did them and idn't just take a beautiful house and right down the address. (When I had my roof done, it was by the same guy who did the townhouse across the street and the one to the right of it, and maybe one other, so I saw that he worked well and did a nice job. I didn't rely on his having a nice smile, being friendly, and well-spoken. But if your spouse thought that was good enough, don't fight about it. You'll know for next time. At most we're talking about 10,000 dollars. )

Stop fighting with each other. Everyone makes mistakes.

Of course they'll come out, and if there were no problems, you wouldn't be complaining. (unless you're a couple of fuss-budgets, which you might be for all I know) If they're competent, they'll find them.
And they won't work for free, but they will give you a firm "estimate" of what they will charge to make your roof like it was supposed to be with the first roofer. Not better, but the same. If you decide you want it better, get a separate estimate on that, because the first one will be your evidence in court. It shouldn't just say "new roof" but should refer to correcting specific, described problems in the current roof. It should say what is wrong with the current roof. If they can't write an estimate t hat includes this stuff, tell them you won't win in court and you won't have the money to hire them.
Make sure what they say is compatible with your observations. You don't want them claiming things are bad that your photographs show are not bad. Take plenty of photographs before starting the second roofing job. A lot of people seem to not do the second job until after the lawsuit, supposedly because they haven't got the money. If your roof isn't leaking and damaging the inside of your house, you can wait too.
You could do with two estimates.
Hopefully the cost will be less than the maximum small claims court verdict in your area. But if the whole roof has to be done, that doesn't seem possible.
If they have to remove the whole thing and start over

I don't see that. If it's leaking you can testify to that yourself. If it looks bad, you should be taking pictures. I would take a video in addition to stills, starting at the front of your property showing teh whole house including the street number, to prove that it's your house, and then getting close to every bad area. You can leave all this on a laptop and bring the laptop to court.
People who use cell phone pictures for lawsuits over 300 seem like idiots to me. Buy a camera for 150.

You ask them. You have to give them at least one chance to correct their errors, unless you've got some very good reason not to. What reason do you have?

See above. What reason do you have?

My guess is that bad finances on their part does not in itself mean thye are technically incompetent. OTOH, if they hired inexperienced workers, that would mean that. When the next worker shows up ask how long he has worked for them, how much experience he has, where you can get in touch with him. If he appears in court with you as a witness, you should expect to pay him, but if he just gives an sworn affidavit, not much (not that he'll be willing to do either of these things, but if he's angry enough, he might be. Of course if he's too angry, he won't be believable.)

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