Water shut off, again

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On May 28, 9:07�am, "Stormin Mormon"

Note my original post said put valves far away from tank, this elminates soldering on valves. which with water on the other side wouldnt work anyway...or you couldf use unions..
around here code now requires a pressure tank and checkvalve at meter to prevent siphoning from say a abandoned swiimming pool water back into the system.
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The valve is about 3 feet from the tank. Just put valve on the cold side. The tank connection is via flare fitting. I moved the flare to pipe adaptors from the old tank, so that made the connection at the tank. So far, far as I know, no leaks. The pilot lit up, and then the whoof of the gas flame. Sounds like I'm in hot water for a few more years.
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On Thu, 28 May 2009 17:27:34 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Test the draft with a match, make sure the vent is drafting upwards.
That is really the final test, imo
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bob haller wrote:

You are aware of "The Dumb Ass Effect"? You will know better than to shut off both valves while the heater is in operation but "some dumb ass" will come along and turn the damn things off when they're not supposed to.
TDD
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

yeah, but you won't be living there anymore, so you'll be able to laugh about it :)
nate
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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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Nate Nagel wrote:

Yea, I can't stand to live with or around dumb asses.
TDD
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wrote:

the T&P valve will open. thats no biggie, it might leak when reset
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bob haller wrote:

Possibly damaging the T&P valve. It's a safety valve not meant to open over and over again. When the valves are popped open more than a few times, they will tend to start leaking. Besides, if the valve doesn't go outside or to a drain, you will wind up with a very wet floor to mop.
TDD
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wrote:

Why is the T/P valve going to open?
It will only open (when both inlet & outlet valves are closed) IF the water heater over heats due to a failed thermostat.
T/P valves only open when T or P exceeds limits.......
cheers Bob
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fftt wrote:

water still expands as it gets hotter. Not much, but it does.
nate
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If the hot water was just used (before closing valves) then the water in the tank is cold. Water expands as it's heated. The expansion will force a few drops of water out the TP valve.
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wrote:

TDD-
What's the big deal if BOTH valves are turned off while the water heater is in place?
How is that any different than when all the hot water valves at all the fixtures are off?
The water heater will heat the water to the temperature set by the thermostat & shut off.......just like it always does.
cheers Bob
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fftt wrote:

EXPANSION! I've had to install expansion tanks on water heaters where the plumbing system wasn't large enough to accommodate the increase in volume when the water is heated. The T&P valve will pop open all the time until it starts leaking. I wish I could get my friend who is a master plumber with many years experience to chime in to this group. When you've worked in the construction and service industry for several decades like I have, you will tend to absorb a lot of knowledge by observing and asking questions of other people who work in many different fields and trades. Ben there, done that, seen that applies to anyone who's been around long enough, unless they're in a coma. "The Dumb Ass Effect" is why I put locks on valves, safety switches, electrical panels and a myriad of other devices. Warning signs encourage dumb asses to play with things. Understanding dumb asses has provided me with a lot of entertainment. I once hooked a fire horn to a latching switch that was marked "DO NOT TOUCH THIS SWITCH". I can't count the number of times I laughed at some poor moron who just could not resist the temptation to fiddle with it.
TDD
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wrote:

TDD-
You are correct.....
IF the water heater is cold (ie not at operating temp) WHEN BOTH valves are closed.....
YES the T/P valve will relieve the pressure due expansion IF BOTH both remained closed during this "procedure"
and if IF the pressure exceeds the limit of the T/P
btw water heater tanks are not infinitely rigid......I'm too lazy to calc the volume change from 75 psi to 150
btw this would a one time event unless your "example dumb ass" keep opening & closing the valve and letting the water.
my condolences for your pain of having to work & interact with dumb asses
I have fun trying to make things more idiot resistant and since there are a lot of idiots, I dont run out of fun.
one way to make the two valve installation more idiot resistant.....remove the handle from the outlet ball valve
cheers Bob
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fftt wrote:

The problem with removing the handle of a gate valve is that the dumb asses have discovered vice grips. I like ball valves with a lock around them. There are locking enclosures that wrap around valves but the drain bamaged know how to use chisels and hack saws. More work for me.
TDD
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wrote:

My further condolences.....
the breed of "dumb asses" that have access to you & your installations are way dumber and more persistent than my SoCal "lazy dumb asses"
I will continue to do my installations per my designs since all my installations seem to be inaccessible to your types of dumb asses. I have never suffered from the efforts of your types of dumb asses. Although I have see some majorly dumb things done .......... not in the league you describe.
Luck or design? Who knows.......
btw I never mentioned removing the handle on a gate valve.
cheers Bob
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fftt wrote:

I know you wrote ball valve, that's easy to turn with an adjustable wrench but any valve with a relatively smooth shaft won't stay that way. If you're familiar with refrigeration valves, you know that some jerk without a square drive wrench will put vice grips, pliers or an adjustable wrench on the damn thing and ruin it.
TDD
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Loosen nut. Use handle from other side after closing first side.
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I was in an old country shop, one time. They had a nice neat wooden plaque that said "in case of fire, lift flap". I did. Under it, nicely painted, said "I said, IN CASE OF FIRE, stupid!"
I like you one with the fire horn.
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Enjoy the learning experience...?
CY: so, so, true.
You've been around the block more than a few times - hell, you've worn grooves in the sidewalk!
CY: This won't be my first water heater.
What does snow have to do with sticking a shut-off valve on the installation? I'm assuming the water heater is inside in snow country. It couldn't have taken more than an extra five minutes.
CY: Trailer life. The WH is in a compartment that only access from outdoors. I'm standing on a step stool. In 20 degree wind, working in an access door that's only about an inch wider than the WH. It's not as convenient as working in a cellar.
R
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