Water shut off, again

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Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do anything pretty. Just change the tank.
Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work. Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.
Any polite, constructive advice, folks?
--
Christopher A. Young
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Hmm. That sounds like excellent advice. I'll do that. Thank you.
--
Christopher A. Young
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On Wed, 27 May 2009 18:11:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Use a 1/4 turn brass ball valve on the cold out of the wall. I didn't wait on a warranty the same day my WH failed. I did collect the cost, less labor.
My new WH was a different size, etc. The borg had flexible, braided, hot water lines. I was able to turn and twist the line so it connected.
The lines transition from PEX to copper stub > brass > rubber/nylon hose > brass > gal. nipple on the tank.
No corrosion after several years.
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Use a 1/4 turn brass ball valve on the cold out of the wall.
CY: yes, I was thinking ball or gate valve. Globe valve restrict the water flow, a bit.
I didn't wait on a warranty the same day my WH failed. I did collect the cost, less labor.
CY: I'm going to take the WH out, and haul it to the store. Hope to come back with a new one.
My new WH was a different size, etc. The borg had flexible, braided, hot water lines. I was able to turn and twist the line so it connected.
CY: I'm considering doing some sweat solder, and make the lines nice and pretty, this time. Flex is also a good thought.
The lines transition from PEX to copper stub > brass > rubber/nylon hose > brass > gal. nipple on the tank.
CY: That does sound good.
No corrosion after several years.
CY: EVen better. thanks.
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On May 27, 6:11pm, "Stormin Mormon"

Enjoy the learning experience...?
You've been around the block more than a few times - hell, you've worn grooves in the sidewalk! What does snow have to do with sticking a shut-off valve on the installation? I'm assuming the water heater is inside in snow country. It couldn't have taken more than an extra five minutes.
R
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Install 2 ball valves one on in, one on out, well away from tank.
use only for leak emergencies.
makes swapping tanks far easier, and spring for a 12 year tank, so you dont have this trouble again soon.
the vertex tanks now get you a 30% federal tax credit
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The trailer is probably worth less than a Vertex.
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wrote:

I get by just fine, one valve in (cold).
No reason for an outbound shut off ball valve (from WH).That costs money.
You may know different?
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I can see one ball valve. But two? Might work. And a couple of copper unions? To make disassembly so much easier. One other poster suggested braided flex line, and I may go that route.
If good fortune is with me, tomorrow I trade for a replacement 6 year tank. I hope I'm not at this adress in six years.
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Christopher A. Young
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Putting a valve on the output line of a hot water heater can lead to tank damage from water hammer. A check valve will prevent water draining back from the rest of the house without cutting the tank off from the various trapped pockets of air that cushion the tank from water hammer. If you do install a check valve you will want bleeder valves on both sides of the it. One is to admit the air when your trying to change the water heater and the other is to drain the hot water plumbing when you need to do so. Since the hot water plumbing is kind of useless without the water heater I don't see the point of a shut off on the outlet side. Without an outlet valve the tank drain also serves as a hot water plumbing drain.
-- Tom Horne
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Tom Horne wrote:

How could a valve on the output line possibly cause tank damage? Maybe if I were to close that valve fast for some reason, but that would be the case if I closed another hot valve fast.
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John wrote:

Many water pressure regulators for homes have check valves that prevent water from going back to the water meter and water heaters have check valves in the short pipe nipples you may see on top of a tank type water heater. The check valves allow water to flow only in one direction. Water in the heater expands and the typical home plumbing has enough room for the expanding water. If not, an expansion tank is called for. If you were close valves on both hot and cold connections to the water heater, the T&P safety would open and flood the floor if it's not piped to a drain. Many water heaters have a pipe connected to the T&P valve that stops just above the floor next to the heater. Look at this website and read the paragraph titled "Thermal expansion". The site has some good information about water heaters that is easy to understand.
http://www.chilipepperapp.com/whwp.htm
TDD
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

I understand that *operating* a water heater with the valves closed would be unwise, but one doesn't install a valve on a water heater so that it can be operated while closed. The valve is for closing when the water heater is offline to be serviced or replaced. This is like having a drain plug on a boat, you don't have a drain for when you use the boat, it is for when the boat is offline/out of the water!
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....... I understand that *operating* a water heater with the valves closed would be unwise......
How is that unwise & more importantly how is that any different than having all the hot water valves off at the fixtures (normal operating state)?
cheers Bob
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wrote:

Opertating the heater with the INLET valve turned off and taps closed is dangerous.
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Tom-
Two comments (actually a question & an answer)
one....how can this be true? "Putting a valve on the output line of a hot water heater can lead to tank damage from water hammer."
The only time this valve is closed is when you replace the water heater, if it gets closed "by accident", won't be closed for long....... no hot water.
That concept of "various trapped pockets of air that cushion the tank from water hammer" is a myth....air dissolves into the water and those pockets of air go away. If you want to reduce water hammer use some appropriately located & sized water hammer arrestors.
btw, the water heaters T&P valve will keep the pressure spikes below its threshold. And besides, the water heater itself is not infinitely rigid so I doubt it sees much of a pressure spike.
two.... "Since the hot water plumbing is kind of useless without the water heater I don't see the point of a shut off on the outlet side."
Here's the point A valve on cold water AND on the hot water ....both installed on the "house side" of the water heater flexible connection lines......
allow the water heater to be isolated from the house plumbing.
This makes your NEXT water heater replacement a simple, relatively "dry" process. The hot water plumbing isnt draining back onto you as you work.
cheers Bob
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A truly excellent idea. For the moments when the WH is in the cellar of a frame home.
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Christopher A. Young
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:

actually any home, its easier to work without water draining back on you,
and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in them.
2 valves elminate all this.
and what difference does a frame home make?
mine is brick but the water system is the same.
the only time both valves are closed is during tank replacement.....
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actually any home, its easier to work without water draining back on you,
and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in them.
CY: Right, it's impossible to solder wet lines.
2 valves elminate all this.
CY: That's true. But you have to solder on the valves.
and what difference does a frame home make?
mine is brick but the water system is the same.
CY: The trailer I live in, the top of the WH is about three feet higher than any sink or tub or toilet in the place. Won't be that hard to drain the water out of where I'm soldering.
the only time both valves are closed is during tank replacement.....
CY: True.
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