Water shut off, again

Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work. Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

Reply to
Stormin Mormon
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Reply to
Jimi

Hmm. That sounds like excellent advice. I'll do that. Thank you.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Use a 1/4 turn brass ball valve on the cold out of the wall. I didn't wait on a warranty the same day my WH failed. I did collect the cost, less labor.

My new WH was a different size, etc. The borg had flexible, braided, hot water lines. I was able to turn and twist the line so it connected.

The lines transition from PEX to copper stub > brass > rubber/nylon hose > brass > gal. nipple on the tank.

No corrosion after several years.

Reply to
Oren

Enjoy the learning experience...?

You've been around the block more than a few times - hell, you've worn grooves in the sidewalk! What does snow have to do with sticking a shut-off valve on the installation? I'm assuming the water heater is inside in snow country. It couldn't have taken more than an extra five minutes.

R
Reply to
RicodJour

Install 2 ball valves one on in, one on out, well away from tank.

use only for leak emergencies.

makes swapping tanks far easier, and spring for a 12 year tank, so you dont have this trouble again soon.

the vertex tanks now get you a 30% federal tax credit

Reply to
bob haller

Last people didnt put one in, but you were the last person wernt you. Was that the other personality.

Reply to
ransley

The trailer is probably worth less than a Vertex.

Reply to
ransley

Use a 1/4 turn brass ball valve on the cold out of the wall.

CY: yes, I was thinking ball or gate valve. Globe valve restrict the water flow, a bit.

I didn't wait on a warranty the same day my WH failed. I did collect the cost, less labor.

CY: I'm going to take the WH out, and haul it to the store. Hope to come back with a new one.

My new WH was a different size, etc. The borg had flexible, braided, hot water lines. I was able to turn and twist the line so it connected.

CY: I'm considering doing some sweat solder, and make the lines nice and pretty, this time. Flex is also a good thought.

The lines transition from PEX to copper stub > brass > rubber/nylon hose > brass > gal. nipple on the tank.

CY: That does sound good.

No corrosion after several years.

CY: EVen better. thanks.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Enjoy the learning experience...?

CY: so, so, true.

You've been around the block more than a few times - hell, you've worn grooves in the sidewalk!

CY: This won't be my first water heater.

What does snow have to do with sticking a shut-off valve on the installation? I'm assuming the water heater is inside in snow country. It couldn't have taken more than an extra five minutes.

CY: Trailer life. The WH is in a compartment that only access from outdoors. I'm standing on a step stool. In 20 degree wind, working in an access door that's only about an inch wider than the WH. It's not as convenient as working in a cellar.

R
Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I get by just fine, one valve in (cold).

No reason for an outbound shut off ball valve (from WH).That costs money.

You may know different?

Reply to
Oren

I can see one ball valve. But two? Might work. And a couple of copper unions? To make disassembly so much easier. One other poster suggested braided flex line, and I may go that route.

If good fortune is with me, tomorrow I trade for a replacement 6 year tank. I hope I'm not at this adress in six years.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Put one on both the supply AND outlet, that way you can change tank again if you have to without draining the house down. Change the drain valve to a ball valve before you even install it. If you want to get really slick, use flexible tubing and/or a handful of elbows and make a "heat trap" on both inlet and outlet sides. Have fun!

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Putting a valve on the output line of a hot water heater can lead to tank damage from water hammer. A check valve will prevent water draining back from the rest of the house without cutting the tank off from the various trapped pockets of air that cushion the tank from water hammer. If you do install a check valve you will want bleeder valves on both sides of the it. One is to admit the air when your trying to change the water heater and the other is to drain the hot water plumbing when you need to do so. Since the hot water plumbing is kind of useless without the water heater I don't see the point of a shut off on the outlet side. Without an outlet valve the tank drain also serves as a hot water plumbing drain.

-- Tom Horne

Reply to
Tom Horne

How could a valve on the output line possibly cause tank damage? Maybe if I were to close that valve fast for some reason, but that would be the case if I closed another hot valve fast.

Reply to
John

Tom-

Two comments (actually a question & an answer)

one....how can this be true? "Putting a valve on the output line of a hot water heater can lead to tank damage from water hammer."

The only time this valve is closed is when you replace the water heater, if it gets closed "by accident", won't be closed for long....... no hot water.

That concept of "various trapped pockets of air that cushion the tank from water hammer" is a myth....air dissolves into the water and those pockets of air go away. If you want to reduce water hammer use some appropriately located & sized water hammer arrestors.

btw, the water heaters T&P valve will keep the pressure spikes below its threshold. And besides, the water heater itself is not infinitely rigid so I doubt it sees much of a pressure spike.

two.... "Since the hot water plumbing is kind of useless without the water heater I don't see the point of a shut off on the outlet side."

Here's the point A valve on cold water AND on the hot water ....both installed on the "house side" of the water heater flexible connection lines......

allow the water heater to be isolated from the house plumbing.

This makes your NEXT water heater replacement a simple, relatively "dry" process. The hot water plumbing isnt draining back onto you as you work.

cheers Bob

Reply to
fftt

Many water pressure regulators for homes have check valves that prevent water from going back to the water meter and water heaters have check valves in the short pipe nipples you may see on top of a tank type water heater. The check valves allow water to flow only in one direction. Water in the heater expands and the typical home plumbing has enough room for the expanding water. If not, an expansion tank is called for. If you were close valves on both hot and cold connections to the water heater, the T&P safety would open and flood the floor if it's not piped to a drain. Many water heaters have a pipe connected to the T&P valve that stops just above the floor next to the heater. Look at this website and read the paragraph titled "Thermal expansion". The site has some good information about water heaters that is easy to understand.

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TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

Yeah.

Get yourself a "ball valve" the size of copper pipe from your water meter and while the water is off, just cut out a section of pipe and put in the

1/4 turn ball valve. The ball valves cause very little pressure drop (they are even better than gate valves.)

An inside whole house water shutoff is all you really need althought it's "nice" to be able to isolate the hot water heater and still permit water for the toilets.

Again, with compression fittings you don't have to worry about soldering. The water meter shut off may not be 100% leak tight. The compression fittings work even when there is water present. Make sure you have proper sized wrenches on hand and just tighten enough to stop leaks.

You might be able to get a valve that uses "O" rings to make the seal. These usually can be installed without wrenches (hand tight will do; some just require that you insert the pipe into the end and that's it!)

It's up to you whether you trust plastic valves or want to go with brass with a stainless "ball."

If you insert plastic parts in a metal water line, you may want to ensure that you have an electrical connection around the plastic part. Many older homes use the water pipe connection for the electrical "ground." (Today, it's standard to place two ground rods.)

Reply to
John Gilmer

If it were a frame home, I'd do that, with the valves on both sides. And either copper unions, or flex. However, it's a trailer. So, the WH connections are far higher than any sink or tub.

Wouldn't it need a heat trap on the hot side only?

The flexible tubing might avoid the need for copper unions, since the flex has swivel ends. Good idea.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

A truly excellent idea. For the moments when the WH is in the cellar of a frame home.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

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