water pressure regulator question

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Sept 30, 2014, Tuesday
Parents house, when I was a kid the water pressure always 52 PSI at the gauge. I was there today, and it was 78 PSI. Isn't that rough on gaskets, valves, seats, etc?
I turned on the laundry sink faucet a little bit, pressure went down to 45. Turn off, goes up to 78.
Is 78 a bit high? I turned the adjustment, and got 40/78 or 50/78.
Possibly bad regulator?
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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Stormin:
If you plan to do any repiping at all, an excellent way to pipe that pressure regulator is with the pressure gauge immediately downstream of the pressure regulator and a ball valve immediately downstream of the pressure gauge.
That way, you can close the ball valve and see if the regulator is leaking by watching the pressure gauge. Even a tiny leak will cause the pressure of that tiny volume of water to rise quickly to the upstream pressure.
Also, that set up allows you to adjust the pressure regulator accurately. You just close the ball valve and tighten the adjusting screw on the regulator until the pressure on the gauge reads what you want. Then, open the ball valve and the regulator will pressurize your house's entire water distribution piping to that same pressure.
And, of course, if you have a pressure reducing valve on the make up water piping to a hot water heating system, you can put a pressure gauge and ball valve downstream of that PRV as well so that you can do the same things on your hot water heating system.
That's how I have the hot water heating system PRV set up in my building, and I find it's an excellent way of doing things.
--
nestork


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On 9/30/2014 6:53 PM, nestork wrote:

turned off the faucet and it went to 78. So tell me why I need a ball valve after the gage?

CY: I planned to adjust the regulator while the water was slowly dribbling. But, it went to 45 PSI which is fine.

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On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:19:59 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

It's not a necessity. But the guy has an expansion tank too. Let's say you have incoming water at 78, regulator set at 55. If the regulator doesn't seal completely, but has a tiny leak, I expect what you would see when you shut off the faucet would be a quick rise from 45 to 55, then a slow rise from 55 to 78. IDK what the typical failure mechanism of the regulator is, but if it doesn't seat correctly, but has a very tiny leak, that increase from 55 to 78 could take hours. With a valve after the regulator, it would occur almost instantly. But I agree, I don't see the necessity of the extra valve, because you can just leave all the faucets off and check next morning.

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On 10/1/2014 8:42 AM, trader_4 wrote:

CY: Or, I could check it thirty seconds later, like I did yesterday, and find the pressure at 78, as I wrote, yesterday.
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On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 9:19:03 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

If the regulator is set to 55, but has a very small leak, you won't see it at 78 thirty seconds later. With an expansion tank, 30s secs later it could still be showing 55, with the actual pressure having risen so little that it still looks like the needle hasn't moved. A day later it could be at 78.
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On 10/1/2014 9:49 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Might be true, but is that data relevant to any thing I wrote? You just ramblin on?
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On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 10:39:57 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Did you leave your PC unattended? Someone else post this:
"CY: I ran some water, and it went to 45 PSI. I turned off the faucet and it went to 78. So tell me why I need a ball valve after the gage?
CY: Or, I could check it thirty seconds later, like I did yesterday, and find the pressure at 78, as I wrote, yesterday.
All I did was answer the question you asked. If the pressure regulator doesn't seat completely, but has a very small leak, with an expansion tank, the pressure won't go to 78 instantly or in 30 seconds. It could take hours. The valve after the pressure regulator allows you to close it, so that if it's going to 78, it will do so almost instantly. No need to get snarky.
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On 10/1/2014 10:57 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Since my pressure valve goes to 78 in just a few seconds, why do you continue to type information that's totally not relevant? I've told you several times that my gauge goes to 78 PSI in the time it takes to get from the laundry sink back to the gauge. Yet, you continue to write about expansion tanks.
Why do you write about expansion tanks when I told you the pressure goes up in less time than it takes me to walk the distance from the sink to the gauge?
You really seem to be insistent on writing information that has no use to this situation. Repeatedly, after I supply the relevant and present facts. Anyhow, babble on, I'll delete any further irrelevant drivel on this thread.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 8:01:32 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Another poster early on started the talk about an expansion tank. And you said:
"That makes good sense. I'd think with an expansion tank, the pressure would rise, but not as soon. That might be the patch for the situation."
That's how an expansion tank got in the mix. Someone brought it up and *you* said it was a possible solution. And with an expansion tank, the valve nestork suggested allows the pressure to come up instantly if the regulator isn't seating properly. That's the purpose of nestork's valve. And again you posted:
"Might be true, but is that data relevant to any thing I wrote? You just ramblin on? "
It is relevant, because you said an *expansion tank* might be the patch for *your* situation.
PS: An expansion tank doesn't solve a problem where the pressure is too high due to a failed regulator, so there's that. I suppose I shouldn't bring that up either because you'll say it's irrelevant.

Because you posted this:
"I'd think with an expansion tank, the pressure would rise, but not as soon. That might be the patch for the situation."

Try reading what you posted and introduced as a possible solution:
"I'd think with an expansion tank, the pressure would rise, but not as soon. That might be the patch for the situation."
PS PS: You could have just said:
I don't have an expansion tank and I changed my mind about possibly adding one, but I recognize the purpose of Nestork's suggested valve.
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On 10/2/2014 8:25 AM, trader_4 wrote:

how? Rambling, again.
Since the pressure in question goes to 78 faster than I can walk from the laundry sink to the gage, your confused blabbering is not relevant, here.
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On Thursday, October 2, 2014 8:58:35 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

YOU came in here looking for advice, about your failed pressure regulator, how it works and how to diagnose it. Someone brought up an expansion tank. Whereupon, once again, YOU said:
"I'd think with an expansion tank, the pressure would rise, but not as soon. That might be the patch for the situation."
So YOU added it to the mix as a possible solution. Nestork said that with an expansion tank, adding a valve right after the pressure regulator would allow the regulator to be isolated, which allows for quick detection of a slow leak through a failed pressure regulator. You either couldn't grasp that simple concept or were playing games, because in response to that you posted:
CY: I ran some water, and it went to 45 PSI. I turned off the faucet and it went to 78. So tell me why I need a ball valve after the gage?
You stated that an expansion tank was now a part of the possible solution. All I did was explain what Nestork meant. And as further proof that you're clueless, after all the discussion and attempts to explain things to you, you recently posted this gem:
"I'd think with an expansion tank, the pressure would rise, but not as soon. That might be the patch for the situation."
Only a true idiot would consider adding an expansion tank as a solution for failed pressure regulator, because it doesn't patch it, fix it, solve it. The obvious solution, if you want lower pressure, is to repair or replace the failed pressure regulator. And then, to top it all off, you have the nerve to get snarky? YOU came here looking for advice. NEstork gave you some, I gave you some, and you're still clueless. You accuse me of "rambling"? Go look at all the totally off topic comments you interject every day into all kinds of threads. Now that's rambling.
So, now it's time for my thought for you of the day. Go fuck yourself. You're on my list of useless protoplasm in the group.
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On 10/2/2014 9:26 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Amazing. I told you again, that I don't need a shut off valve after the gauge (you said I did). And you run on about expansion tanks. Now you blast me for trying to stay on topic? You really know how to show the readers of this list what your true self is like.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Thursday, October 2, 2014 9:32:02 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Why don't you post for everyone where I said you needed a shut off valve after the gauge. You can't because I never said any such thing. You're lying. One more time, all I did was explain to you the *purpose* of the valve after the regulator that Nestork brought up, because you made a reply where *you* raised the question of the purpose.
CY: So tell me why I need a ball valve after the gage?
And my response started off with:
"It's not a necessity."
So, stop lying. I clearly never said you needed Nestor's valve.

Your own words:
"I'd think with an expansion tank, the pressure would rise, but not as soon. That might be the patch for the situation."
You yourself stated that you were considering adding an expansion tank. But now an expansion tank is off topic? Good grief.

Look in the mirror big boy. And talk about drivel, rambling, and off topic, you're the guy who has some totally off topic comment, usually about Obama in many posts. Someone could ask about a door knob and you'd manage to drag Obama into it. It's also funny how you accuse Obama and libs of being liars, denying obvious truths, but here you are doing exactly that. You're denying that it was *you* who said an expansion tank was now a possible fix and then having the nerve to accuse me of being off topic. Also, go back and look at who started with the snarky comments.
PS: Have you figured out that an expansion tank isn't a fix to a failed pressure regulator yet?
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On 10/2/2014 9:26 AM, trader_4 wrote:

You again demonstrate your civility, manners, IQ, and culture and breeding. BTW, do you have any grey poupon?
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

I think gauge could be before the regulator or after the regulator.
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On 9/30/2014 8:55 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

Well, let me know what you decide.
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Stormin:
You should be able to find a manufacturer's name and model number on your pressure regulator. If so, I'd get on the manufacturer's web site and contact their tech support (or customer service) to see if an overhaul kit is available for that pressure regulator. If it is, the manufacturer should also be able to tell you who distributes their products near you and you can order the overhaul kit from them.
The advantage of ordering the kit is that you can normally replace all the wearing parts in the pressure regulator without removing the regulator body from the piping. So, if you don't have a valve upstream of the regulator, you'll still have to have the city shut the water off to your house temporarily, but if you have good access to the regulator at least you can fix the regulator yourself. The overhaul kit should come with complete instructions to overhaul the regulator so you'll know what tools you'll need in advance.
I know that Watts makes overhaul kits available for their hydronic heating system pressure reducing valves, and my understanding is that overhaul kits are available for most PRV's manufactured in the USA.
--
nestork


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On 10/2/2014 10:16 AM, nestork wrote:

So, you think that going from 45 to 78 (about the time it takes for me to walk from the laundry tray to the regulator) might be a bad regulator?
I'm still trying to decide if this is a sign of a bad regulator. I suspect it is. And if the system needs repair. I know Dad's had to repair or rebuild the toilet valves (two of them).
Perhaps it's "just one of those things" and leave it alone? Or is it a problem worth the effort? That's my big question.
Sure would be nice to do the rebuild while the regulator is piped in. I didn't look, might be pipe thread in, or sweat. I don't know at present.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Thursday, October 2, 2014 10:26:34 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

It doesn't matter if it takes .1 sec or an hour to get to 78PSI. If it's at 78 when it's supposed to be at 50, it's a bad regulator. You said fiddling with it you can get the pressure to 45, 50, 55 as long as a faucet is open. So it's responding and not totally stuck. That it rises with the faucet shut off to 78 means that the regulator doesn't fully seat, there is a small leak. Either that, or you have something else in the system, eg a pump that is raising the pressure on the house side. Only you know what you have.

Of course it's a sign of a bad regulator.
I suspect it is. And if the

Which likely has nothing to do with the problem.

That's up to you. If 78 was as high as the pressure ever gets, if it were my house, absent any problems, I wouldn't worry about it. Whether it gets higher at other times, who knows.

It might be that there is just some dirt lodged in there that's the problem. But once you have it apart, I'd do the rebuild kit, assuming it's available. At the least you'd need new gaskets, etc anyway.
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