warranty question: double-pane windows with moisture between the panes

[Jack]

First, I have my actual written warranty for the double-paned windows on my house; and the windows are still within the period that the window manufacturer will 100% replace any windows with seal failures. I've owned the windows for less than 5 years. These are likely less-expensive double-paned windows that the builder installed.

I want to be reasonable with the manufacturer, and so here is what I've done so far.

First, I cleaned all of the windows on my house, and inspected them for different grades of moisture between the panes.

1 - visible small droplets / fog in the window - no ambiquity of seal failure

2 - mild streaks of fog with a few small spots of heavier moisture

3 - mild streaks of fog visible between the panes, no visible droplets

4 - few streaks of fog visible

5 - window looks fine

Now, I went around my home and graded each window.

Question: For the above grades, what do you think is reasonsable to expect the window manufacturer to replace under warranty due to seal failures?

I'm thinking of definitely pushing for all of the 1s and 2s. I'm not as sure about pushing for the 3s and 4s.

Thanks.

[buffalobill]

grab the warranty coverage now on 1-2-3-4's and hope your 5's dont fail soon after warranty expires.

[m Ransley]

Your warranty will state the condition . Pellas 20yr warranty states "a permanent material obstruction of vision'" in the warranty. I see it as any obstruction-moisture, indicates seal failure. So 1-4, no matter how small the issue. If many are defective, they all may soon be bad.

[FDR]

When the seal breaks, the argon gas that is normally sandwiched in between the panes will escape rendering the insulation value to nearly nothing.

[Joseph Meehan]

Any indication of moisture is too much. There should not none at all.

[nicksanspam]

Well, it might become an R2 window.

Nick

[m Ransley]

Over 20 yrs 10% of the argon is expected to leak out resulting in only a few % reduction in R value.

[nicksanspam]

What's the written guarantee say?

Nick

[Todd H.]

Which, it bears mention, is only slightly worse than the insulation value of argon gas! Gas is not a terribly good insulator.

The biggest problem with seal breakage is the appearance of the moisture, and as another poster said, any appearance of moisture is too much.

Best Regards,

-- Todd H.

[nicksanspam]

It's not bad. Neither is air.

shows a low-e and argon combination raises the US R-value of double glass by about 1, from 2.04 to 2.86. Neither are "nearly nothing," altho they are small, compared to an R30 wall.

Nick

[Colbyt]

Second that! Get what you can while you can. If you stay there you will have plenty of time to pay later.

Colbyt

[D4]

Note to all of my firends.

R-values have no place in the window industry, because the resistance value of the glass pack and the frame are always compromised by the air infiltration around the opening and the amount of passive energy from short wave radiation (light).

The window industry therefore uses U values. Though they are basically

1/R-Value, U values can fluctuate where R-values are relatively static.

Any moisture inside the glass pack indicates seal failure. It is up to the window manufacturer to honor his warranty.

Odds are, that the warranty does NOT include installation or removal of the old window. Odds also are, that the manufacturer will ignore you.

You might be best to request replacement sahes (the parts that hold the glass. If your windows tilt in and out, you will be able to replace these yourself very easily.

[m Ransley]

U values have no place for most of us in window rating. U values are the mathematical inverse of R values. So an R value of 2 equals a U value of .05 or 1/2. I use R values they are a logical comparison instead of throwing in U values as a comparitor. U value to R for most is like metric with feet, or scones to Decibels, confusing and unessary. And what is that 1/ R comparitor you posted, its wrong.. So is air infiltration as an R factor. R or U just convert it, its measured the same.

[nicksanspam]

No. U = 1/R. :-)

Nick

[m Ransley]

Nick please show the math conversion formula expressed out, so I can do it.

[Jack]

The window manufacturer is replacing all of the 1-2-3-4's under warranty including labor :)

So far the only cost to me is my time.