Wall oven junction box location.

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On Apr 4, 7:34 pm, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Even if you find something asinine, it doens't equal lying. They are completely different things. Look it up in the dictionary.

Again, how dumb are you? The metal backing of the oven directly behind the oven cavity is going to be the hottest. It's way hotter than the upper 4" or so where the electronics and display are located because there are no heating elements there. In fact there is usually a fan that helps keep that section cool.
Now under what novel physics theory does the metal behind that upper electronics section radiate the same heat as the hotter metal area directly behind the oven?

Once again, I didn't make anything up. And one more time, I'm not the first person in this thread to bring up temperature as a possible reason for the manufacurer specifying that the electric box be either 5" min below the bottom of the oven, or else up in the top 4", ie behind the cooler electronics section. And yeah, I referenced the part in the install manual where they talk about the insulation and temperature issue in the wires coming from the oven.
Here's a simple question for you. What's the max temp rating for Romex today? And is it so high that it's not within the range of what might temp the area directly behind an oven might get to? What was the max temp rating of wire used to connect ovens 50 years ago, that someone could still be using with a new oven today? I say it's entirely possible that the above considerations were responsible for the box mounting locations. Do I know for sure? No and I never said I did.
You of course have no alternate possible explanation, after I quickly smashed the idiotic "interference" proposal. Interference? When they say it has to be 5" min below the bottom of the oven? If it's even 1/32" below the oven there can be no interference.
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On Apr 1, 10:47 am, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
If it gets to the point that 2x4 vs metal studs make a difference outside the oven, I'd say you're in a lot of trouble and it's probably not going to matter.

ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

How far above is it?

It's probably so that the flexible power conduit from the oven can easily make it to the box, without any sharp turns, excessive bending, etc.

I'd say if it can comfortably make it to where it is now, no, it doesn't need to be moved. If it has to be moved, then the best way to do it depends on what you have to work with, which we can't see. Typically the way to move it would be to find the cable in the basement, install a box there, then do a new run to the new location.

picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.
In the link you provided, I don;t see any of that. All I see is a bottom view of where to put the runners.

teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
Excellent!
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On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
Current box is only I am guessing 6 inches above the runners.
If you look at the picture There are the words "juntion box locations" with arrows pointing to circles above and below the runners.
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On Apr 1, 12:23 pm, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

pening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junct ion box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

ne picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this b ox "above" the runners.

y teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

t -

Yes, I see that now. And I agree, the drawing makes no sense. It shows two locations for the box, one high 24"+ and one low, near the bottom. But the verbage says it has to be high. I say it's another example of screwed up instructions. Likely they adapted something from maybe a double oven and didn't do it correctly.
I would call them up and see if you can find any signs of intelligence on their hotline.
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Well, I am glad it is not just me. I will look for their number. One other I think simple question:
My oven rests on a flat piece of plywood separating the oven chamber from a pot and pan cabinet below.
Directions say if the oven rests on a flat surface to cut out a 6x10 inch a rea for air circulation. If I use runners on top of the solid surface, do I still have to cut a hole in my cabinet?
Also, I planned on installing the 2x4 runners flat, but the picture shows t hem on their sides. I dont have enough room at the top to place the 2x4's o n their side.
What would you do?
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
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On Apr 1, 2:15 pm, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

I still have to cut a hole in my cabinet?
I would say no. You've exceeded the min reqt by the thickness of the runners. I really don't understand these tough requirements. I installed a Kitchenaid double oven a couple years ago. There was nothing about what it sat on and the clearance horizontally was almost zero. They did have an area mapped out for the junction box, but again, I think that is more so the BX cable will work out OK, not have sharp angles, be easy to slide in, etc. If there were a critical temp issue, you would think they would spell that out.

on their side.

With them in the 2" direction there should be plenty of room. The install intructions only say it can't be on a flat surface, correct?
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On 4/1/2013 10:47 AM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom. For some wall ovens there is only space to locate the junction box in specific places. Some wall ovens are so deep we have to cut the wallboard behind them to make room for the junction box. I wouldn't loose sleep over it. More important to be sure your feeder is properly sized for the new oven and properly spliced especially if the feeder is aluminum
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I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.
The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.
My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?
2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?
What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.
As always I appreciate the help.
p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
*It looks to me like the junction box can be located above or below the oven, but not behind. This is so it is accessible. 23 7/8" is the minimum height to the bottom of the junction box. If the existing oven feed wire is not long enough to go in the cabinet above the oven, it can be brought down into the cabinet below the oven.
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That's what I would have thought too -- that the idea was to have the junction box be above or below the oven, but not behind it.
But, when I look at the installation instructions, I can't quite figure that part out. It looks like it shows the height of the bottom of the upper junction box as a minimum of 23 7/8 inches up from the bottom of the oven. But, it shows the height of the oven itself as being dimension "H", which is 28 1/4 inches. That would put the upper junction box behind the oven, although it looks like it would be above the oven in the diagram. It may be that I am not reading the diagram correctly, or maybe the oven is recessed in the bottom where it sits on the two 2x4 runners, and maybe the height of the oven is actually less than 28 1/4 inches -- more like 24 inches.
The only wall oven that I ever looked at was just recently and it was a single oven with the junction box located on the back wall of the cabinet below the oven. So, I had access to the junction box without taking out the oven.
Overall, and despite whatever the diagram does or does not actually show, I think the concept is that they would recommend that the junction box be above or below the oven on the back wall of either the cabinet above or the cabinet below.
To the OP: Since you have the actual new oven, can you measure the dimension from the bottom of the new oven (the part that is supposed to sit on the 2x4 runners) to the top of the oven and post what that dimension is? And, where is your current junction box for the original oven located? Is it located in the cabinet above or below the original oven?
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I put in a Kitchenaid double oven couple years ago. It had an area where the box was supposed to be and the area was directly behind the ovens in the lower part. The oven cabinet didn't go back as far in that lower area, which was quite large. I would think that contrary to your comment, most ovens are designed to have the box behind them. Often you don't have easy access to areas above or below. And the ovens I installed came with a flex BX type cable that easily slid in with the ovens.
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On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
Only problem is the oven sits on a flat piece of plywood. Below this is a c abinet for pots and pans with sliding drawers. Are you saying to put it int o the cabinet with sliding drawers? (If the oven will not fit with the junc tion boix in the existing location).
Not sure if the bottom drawers would close then.
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I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

Only problem is the oven sits on a flat piece of plywood. Below this is a cabinet for pots and pans with sliding drawers. Are you saying to put it into the cabinet with sliding drawers? (If the oven will not fit with the junction boix in the existing location).
Not sure if the bottom drawers would close then.
*What about in the basement below the oven? How about the cabinet next to the oven? It just needs to be accessible without removing the oven.
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On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 17:50:13 -0400, "John Grabowski"

How would you get the oven in and out? Put coil up the slack in the basement and pull it through each time? That doesn't sound like a plan.

If the oven slides out on the 2x4 rails, why sweat it?
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No, it doesn't. There's *no* requirement that the box be accessible without removing the oven.
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*Evidently the manufacturer requires it since it is explicitly shown that way in the installation instructions. Also 314.29 could be interpreted that way.
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Huh? The box is shown *behind* the oven! Obviously it is not accessible until the oven is removed!

No, it can't. It requires that boxes be "accessible without removing any part of the building". A wall oven is not "part of the building".
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Why does it need to be accessibly without removing the oven? I installed a Kitchenaid double oven couple years ago and there was no such requirement. The box location was a general area behind the ovens. They used a flex BX type metal conduit that was long enough so you connect it, then slide it in. Seems like that would be a common method to me.
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On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
Oh, forgot to say, I have no basement, just a crawlspace.
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I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.
The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.
My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?
2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?
What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.
As always I appreciate the help.
p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
How long is the cable, and where does it exit from the back of the oven? Those locations may be optimal for proper cable take up after the oven is wired and slid into the opening.
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On 4/1/2013 10:47 AM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom. I've been running into wall ovens with a depth too great to fit in the space, with a junction box sitting directly behind them. I think this is why these directions are showing the box above or below the oven. The ovens I've been seeing have just enough space behind them for the greenfield whip to fit, but not the junction box. The manufacturer calls it a " suggested" junction box location. I typically cut an opening in the sheetrock and drop it down inside the wall
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