Very small bath layout guidance


have a 975 SF raised ranch with one bath. Previous owners studded out a 6x5 area in basement, directly below main level bath. I would like to finish this area for a second 1.5 bath, however it would be atrociously tight as-is. Have a quote from a plumber to core basement floor and rough in plumbing for shower drain, toilet and sink. Understandably, he wants to enlarge the area, which doesn't entail too much demo as it's only finished on the exterior, which is exposed to the open floor plan finished basement.
Where we're of a different opinion is which way to go. As you look at the layout, I don't want to go to the left, as that's a nice little workout area that really can't be made any smaller. Can't go to the right without going a LOT to the right because there's a window almost immediately beyond that right wall, so we'd have to go a good 4-1/2 to 5 feet or more to incorporate that entire window and that'd take too much away from the main room, and make the bathroom larger than it effectively needs to be.
I'd prefer bumping out the door wall, as it's really dead floor space right now -- an 11' wide walkthrough area that could easily give up a few feet. What do you think?
Part of the issue is the plumber doesn't speak English too well, I'm heard of hearing and rely a lot on lip reading; a situation ripe for miscommunication. (Yes, he's licensed, comes well recommended and I've seen his work.) He's a great plumber but perhaps not so much a designer. I have a very reliable and skilled handyman to help with the finish work, but again, design skills...?
The layout below is a very rough prelim sketch done by me. It'll be tight no matter how you slice it -- there's no getting around that, but it is what it is: a small bath in a small house -- no shame in that.
I'm a single mom of three teenagers and proud owner of a very limited budget. We're desperate for a second bath of any size, and just trying to make the most of what we have to work with. Any recommendations much appreciated!
Thanks, ~Jacy
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<jacy> wrote in message

The smallest full bath with tub, toliet and sink is generally recognized to be 5X7. Inside dimensions not including wall thickness. Your plumber may be striving for this size. This bathroom could be rotated 90 degrees and fit into your space as well. Using a shower instead of a tub will require a larger bathroom. The shower requires 37 inches of depth where a tub only needs 30 inches.
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Interesting. As it never even crossed my mind to put a tub in the basement I never measured for one. I did go stand inside one of those 32x32 stalls at HD and was quickly reminded of childhood summer camping vacations and flimsy steel stalls. Even the 36" neo-angles seem too snug. Yet my upstairs tub/shower seems fine at 30". Probably because I'm bumping fabric rather than glass.
The thought of cleaning another tub, though...
What does a 36x42 shower base require in the way of true depth? I'm looking at cultured granite (have it upstairs and love its easy maintenance) and that's one of the standard double-threshold base sizes.
~J
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<jacy> wrote in message wrote:

A shower requires 36 inches of depth. However it needs to be surrounded on 3 sides with walls. I like the shower to recess slightly into these walls. So I make the recess for the shower to fit into about 37" deep. Generally you must leave about 30 inches of space in front of the shower for access and door space. The minimum width for a shower is 3 feet plus walls. I like 4 feet plus walls so my wife can get in with me sometimes. I don't recommend any shower smaller than 3 feet by 3 feet.
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<jacy> wrote in message wrote:

Here is a page with planning guidelines http://www.nkba.org/guidelines/bathroom.aspx
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That was very helpful, thanks,
I just got the plumber's quote: $3,000 to core/repour the concrete and rough in plumbing. Does that seem reasonable? He came well recommended but by someone for whom money is never an object.
~J
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<jacy> wrote in message wrote:

Get more quotes. They don't cost you. You'll suck up knowledge from each one. Bathrooms are costly.
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<jacy> wrote in message> I'd prefer bumping out the door wall, as it's really dead floor space

Thats workable but your chart shows only 6 inches added?

With the right tools, can be workable.

Based on this the primary problem seems the shower placement.
Look over this one.
http://www.totallyfurniture.com/dreamline-shen-2036368-01.html
It would go in the same corner and leave room for the toilet if it faces the door. (a little less than 3ft there, but works if you face it right.).
Can you move the toilet to be where you picture the sink? (possbly the trap has to be there for a less expensive install). If so, swap and put a small pedistal sink where you have the toilet. Then where you have the sink, put the toilet (over midway where the wall with the door is).
Now your door wont hit the shower and you have room to build in a small thin cabinet along the wall where the door is. For soap and stuff. Put your towel racks (layer several under each other so they are sticking out about 3 inches) along that stretch of wall that the door opens out to, or flip the door so it opens out into that 11ft or so 'walkway' that seems to be outside the room where the door leads to.
A small hamper should fit along the wall between the shower and door.
No need to enlarge the room, just pick the right shower stall.
Workable?
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jacy wrote:

Re your sketch, assuming top of sketch is north...
Pushing out either wall would work. If you follow your desire to bump out south wall then...
1. Lose the pocket door. You don't need it and they can be aggravating. (a) door could stay where it is or put on the west wall (b) if you can swing the door out you could gain useable interior space. (Yes, that is also true of a pocket door but they really can be a pain) (c) a 24" door is adequate and saves space.
2. Locate toilet at mid point between east shower wall and east room wall. Occupant should face south unless they are tiny and/or enjoy claustrophobia as you need 36" for shower and close to 30" for the john leaving six inches for legs if the occupant faces west.
3. Locate lavatory along south wall. If you can run it diagonally, SW<>NE, you will gain some body space twixt it and shower especially if you clip the opposing corner of the shower. ___________________
General thoughts...
1. I'd dump the idea of a tub but that is my personal prejudice...I HATE standing in a tub to take a shower which - IME - is what most people do (as opposed to sitting in a tub).
2. If possible, I'd drop the shower floor so its finished floor is about 3" lower than the rest of the finished floor. Doing so may remove the need for a shower pan depending on the way your house is constructed.
3. Pushing out the wall your plumber wants makes accomodating the bathroom fixtures easier than does pushing out the south wall. Enlarging the room southward would work better if you are able to relocate shower/toilet/lavatory relative to the entry and especially so if you were able to relocate the entry to a central position on either the east or west wall and even more especially so if you could bump it out another 1/2 - 1 1/2 feet. (An extra 1 1/2 feet would give you a 3'x5' shower.)
4. Get some graph paper and draw the room to scale. Also draw out space for fixtures on a separate piece of graph paper and cut them out so you can move them around the drawn room. The space you need for the fixtures and body space is...
(a) lavatory - 48" min. (more is better) depth X width (b) toilet - 48" front to back X 24" width. That width is tight, 34" is comfy. (c) shower = 3' x 3'. 3 1/2' x 4' or more is much better.
--

dadiOH
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cut costs by doing demo yourself, rent jackhammer take up concrete floor, that sort of thing. excellent exercise too:)
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wrote:

This is a GREAT idea if you can position the walls to avoid needing a shower curtain. My brother has something like this in his bathroom (which I can't measure for you, unfortunately): basically there's an open doorway to the shower, and the shower head is on one of the short wall perpendicular to that doorway (the other short wall is right next to the doorway). He's got a window on one of the long walls (which is the exterior wall), and the other long wall has the open doorway on it (within the bathroom). You could do a glass block construction for the interior wall for a neat effect that ought to be more durable than tile.
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Switch your tub and toilet, so the toilet is facing the door and the end of the tub is where the sink base starts with a wall separation. Replace the tub with a 4' shower to gain 12" on the sink base. lou
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Be aware that there may be code restrictions that impact your desired finished payout. We had a home with a do-it-yourself bathroom where it was almost impossible to sit on the toilet without having the shower door open. Planned by an idiot. Rotating the toilet at install time or repositioning the shower would have been easily accomodated by the footprint of the room and plumbing. I'm sure it was illegal as anything, too.
Good luck!
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jacy wrote:

You don't have to align to that window unless it is a required egress window for occupied space. It is entirely possible to build a wall in the middle of the window, and this is frequently done in commercial buildings. It may not be the most aesthetic way to go, but you can certainly dress it with drapes or whatnot, as you'd typically do in a bathroom anyway, and it let's you align the space to the most appropriate size and layout.
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