very confused-- Bleach vs. Mold

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mm wrote:

Maybe you are confused because there are so many different products, e.g., no splash, regular, non chlorine, etc. I think I saw at least 7 different formulations all called Chlorox.
Regular bleach is what everyone is talking about, not some substitute that is intended to make colors brighter. Regular bleach is Sodium hypochlorite which ruins cottons by turning them yellow. So there are other "bleaches" that contain other substances including enzymes for special purposes.
If you are smart enough to know the word "halogen" then you should be smart enough to know what chlorine bleach is. There may be some products with bromine or iodine, but I wouldn't want to use them on my clothes. And certainly, none have fluorine in them.
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In article <6UMjf.113001$qk4.70918@bgtnsc05-

Actually, "Whink" rust stain remover, usually found either in the laundry aisle or in the bathroom cleaners section, is hydrofluoric acid in a plastic squeeze bottle. Strong enough concentration to etch many porcelain fixtures, but it does remove rust stains quite well. Just avoid those nasty HF burns....
(And people say bleach would be hard on your skin ;-)
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Joshua Putnam wrote:

I have never seen that product and couldn't believe it contain HF, so I googled. That is just unbelievable that a commercial product like that contains HF.
I can see how you looked for a product that contains fluorine from my statement. But, my statement was directed at bleaches and HF is not a bleach. I would think that any compound considered a bleach with fluorine in it would be highly unstable.
Yep HF would get rid of iron stains, by dissolving it, but excepting some waxes (which HF used to be shipped in wax bottles) and plastics, it dissolves just about everything including what the rust stain was on and you. This HF must be pretty dilute.
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Joshua Putnam wrote:

It's not quite that nice. Google on "hydrofluoric acid amputate" or "hydrofluoric acid multi organ failure".
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Sorry, pal, I think you're mistaken. HF is some NASTY stuff...it eats through GLASS.
Sure you're not thinking of HCl?
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says...

Sorry, but it really is weak HF in a convenient plastic squeeze bottle. See for yourself, MSDS on-line at http://www.whink.com/msdsrr.pdf
Quoting from the MSDS:
Acute Toxicity: Severe eye irritant. Causes serious injury to skin which may not be immediately painful or visible. Causes respiratory irritation and is toxic by ingestion.
Chronic Toxicity: May cause bone and joint changes in humans (Fluorosis).
In all cases, contact a physician immediately. For ingestion, drink large amounts of water or milk. For eye and skin contact, flush immediately for 15 minutes with water. Hydrofluoric acid burns require special treatment which may include Calcium Gluconate injection to prevent serious injury.
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Colonel wrote: Sorry, pal, I think you're mistaken. HF is some NASTY stuff... it eats through GLASS. Sure you're not thinking of HCl?
=========== You are thinking logically, and not all marketers and consumers do the same.
I can remember somebody giving me some household rust & lime remover. This was 25-30 years ago and it was in a small brown plastic bottle. It contained a rather non-trivial concentration of HF, which shocked the crap out of me. And the warning on the label was very casual.
I don't know if it is still marketed, but I do remember seeing it marketed long after I received that bottle. I believe than solutions greater than 1% HF have been outlawed about 5 years now for household use. Personally, I feel that 1% HF shouldn't be marketed for household use. HF is extremely dangerous and few people read or heed warning labels.
Also, hasn't something just as nasty as HF been used in the acid core for household aluminum solders? I've got some old aluminum solders (20 years old) which have no warnings of any sort on them and I feel very positive that they have a nasty florine compound in their core.
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Yes it does. It's called sodium hypochlorite.
Pure chlorine is a gas at standard temperature and pressure, so you would need a gas cylinder, not a plastic jug, to contain it.
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says...
:) :) > :) > But since bleach has come up, I'll mention that I noticed that Clorox :) > Bleach as currently sold here, has no chloriine in it. :) :) Yes it does. It's called sodium hypochlorite. :) :) Pure chlorine is a gas at standard temperature and pressure, so you :) would need a gas cylinder, not a plastic jug, to contain it. :) :) Guessing they mean Clorox All Fabric Bleach...Triethanolamine, Hydrogen peroxide and Benzenesulfonic acid, C10-C16-alkyl derivatives are the AI.
Clorox 2 ... Subtilisin (proteolytic enzyme), Sodium perborate tetrahydrate and Benzenesulfonic acid, C10-C16-alkyl derivatives seem to be the AI
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CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert wrote:

I suggest that you thoroughly wash your hands in concentrated bleach and then say it isn't harsh. That soapy slimy feeling is your skin dissolving.
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On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:57:37 -0500, "CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert"
:Jack wrote: :> I am planning an attic mold cleanup-- Conventional wisdom is to use :> bleach and water, but when I google it... I get a lot of hits saying :> that it is a myth that Bleach kills mold. :> :> The EPA brochure does little to clear it up. :> :> Anyone with any real-world experience or other good info. :> : :I can say for certain it turns it a perly white :) As for wether or not :its dead, I couldn't say. I don't see why bleach would kill mold, its :not that harsh of a chemical. Perhaps thats why we like to use it.
Undoubtedly, bleach is a very effective fungicide (i.e. it kills mold DEAD). Of course, like any poison, it depends on the strength you use. You don't have to and shouldn't use full strength bleach to kill mold. Even full strength from the bottles they sell, it's around 5% sodium hypochlorite. For an effective fungicide, use ~25% solution of that - i.e. 1 part bleach from the bottle, 3 parts water. Now even that's pretty potent and you could use a weaker solution effectively, is my opinion.
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wrote:

Try cleaning with it full strength, without using gloves. Its a damn good thing its not very harsh because the burns it gives bare skin aint very fun

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wrote:

Here's a paragraph from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention:
"Clean Mold Growth Off Hard Surfaces      Mold growth on hard surfaces [Examples: floors, stoves, sinks, certain toys, countertops, flatware, plates, and tools]     
Mix 1 cup of bleach in 1 gallon of water. Wash the item with the bleach mixture. If the surface of the item is rough, scrub the surface with a stiff brush. Rinse the item with clean water. Dry the item or leave it out to dry. "
For more information see: http://www.bt.cdc.gov/disasters/mold/protect.asp
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I discussed this subject with a PhD Molecular Biologist who assured me that bleach does kill mold. Treat it with a watered down solution (don't remember the ratio). Let it dry. Do it again. Let it dry. Do it a third time.
Of course, the mold is there because it's damp. Treating the symptoms without fixing the cause won't help.
-rev
Jack wrote:

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The Reverend Natural Light wrote:

I had some black mold spots on bare wood in my attic.
Sprayed 50% water 50% bleach directly on it.
I did nothing else, no brushing no wiping nothing.
I corrected the source of the moisture that casued the problem.
The mold disappeared and has not returned.
Mark
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Jack, 11/30/2005,4:58:09 PM, wrote:

I just returned from Mississippi where the houses are damaged by the storm surge from Hurricane Katrina. What I saw down there was that the walls and insulation had been removed to air out the studs. The residents told me they spray bleach/water solution and wait 2-3 weeks for the mold to die. The houses we worked on did not have mold in the wall studs. I did see houses where mold was still visible but that was because no work had been down yet to them.
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On 01 Dec 2005 01:35:51 GMT, "badgolferman"

And I have experience also with moss, on my fence. The picket fence is 25 years old and some parts get very little sun. A lot of that part has moss growing on the rails. I sprayed with the recommended concentration of bleach, and it didn't do much. So I sprayed strraight bleach, and it killed the moss. Bleached the wood too I think -- something turned it white. I waited too long, and these parts will have to be replaced, but I figure it bought me 2 to 4 extra years.
Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also.
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Jack wrote:

I don't know about the use in an attic, but bleach is a standard disinfectant (meaning it kills stuff) used in laboratories. Standard bleach is 5-6 percent Sodium hypochlorite. The killing power varies with the strength and the time in contact. Straight out of the bottle takes contact of less than a minute, diluted with 1/5 with water you need a contact of about 15 minutes to kill all microorganisms. I'm not sure how long the stuff would remain liquid if you spray it in the attic, but it wouldn't be very long, so I would spray undiluted stuff.
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In article <0cxjf.110669$qk4.56231@bgtnsc05-

Probably should be obvious, but if you're going to spray undiluted bleach in a confined space, you don't really want to bleach the inside of your lungs by breathing bleach mist. Wear a suitable respirator.
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try the cdc pages at: http://www.cdc.gov/mold/cleanup.htm and the simple poster pdf at : http://www.bt.cdc.gov/disasters/pdf/flyer-get-rid-of-mold.pdf
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