"ventless" room heaters

Does anyone have any experience with ventless propane wall heaters? Code regulations vary one locality to the next, but aAre they really as safe (assuming proper maintenance and operation) as manufacturers like Rinnai and Empire claim?
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Install them all the tiime..

aint that the truth..

Yup. And as dangerous as you might expect....
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Dennis wrote:

Personally I don't like the idea of using ventless heaters for full time heat. I do have one for emergency heat, (used twice is 15 years).
On the other hand today's versions are much safer than the one I have. However, no matter how good they are, they do add moisture and some combustion gases that may not be considered a hazard, but I would rather not have in my home.
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not
I use a similar one in my garage/shop with no problem. My garage is not as airtight as my house though.
I'd consider it for supplementary heat, but I'd not have one in my bedroom. Ed
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All these posts confirm my natural inclination. On the other hand there is a VENTED Empire heater for sale on Ebay by a person who says he bought it and changed his mind about using it because someone recommended that it not be used in a BATHROOM or bedroom. This doesn't make much sense to me. Any insight here into why such a restriction might make sense?
Dennis
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 04:53:47 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net (Dennis) wrote:

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(Dennis) wrote:

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CBhvac wrote:

we have a empire direct vent on the outside wall of a room addition. and it works great. i would not have a vent less.
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 04:53:47 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net (Dennis) wrote:

If your room is big enough. . .
Not a wall heater, but I have had a ventless gas stove providing heat on a converted porch in NY for several years. [An older model of this Desa stove http://dixieproducts.com/desa/desa_amity.html ]
The porch is about 25x15 is on an uninsulated slab, exposed on 3 sides & has 5 windows and an outside door. The stove runs a lot yet has never, even on the coldest nights set off the carbon monoxide detector in the room. [it has gone off once when I was using the oven and all burners on my cook stove in the next room]
I get some condensation on the windows when I boil my spaghetti pot in the next room, but the stove has never contributed enough moisture to fog windows.
I have never had any odors from the stove. [Oddly, not even on the occasions when my propane tank was running low. Then it has always been the cook stove burners that have tipped me off that the gas was getting low.]
When the power goes out my stove will still provide enough heat to keep the living space bearable. Propane is about 1/2 the cost of electricity where I live.
Safety, convenience, economy- my ventless stove wins on all counts.
Jim
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Dennis wrote:

The figures used for acceptable levels of CO and other products of combustion are based on industrial hygiene research. That means that they are based on eight hour shifts. You don't use your home in shifts. Installing a through the wall vented heater is not a lot more work then installing the unvented variety. When you are talking about exposure to Carbon Monoxide 0 PPM should be the only acceptable level Through the wall vented heaters leave all products of combustion outside the home. You may want to install a CO detector and a combustible gas detector to guard against malfunction and gas leaks. -- Tom H
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They worry me, but just as a gas oven they can often be used without danger. We lived once in an old house with an old gas oven that generated significant CO. Our CO monitor had a digital readout so would show us the level even below alarm levels. We never tried cooking a big holiday meal in there, but I suspect that the alarm limit could have been reached on those days.
Since then other gas stoves have not given any detectable CO. They either burn cleaner or our meter is broken. I'm pretty sure CO is produced only when the flame is burning improperly, when it burns right the final product is CO2 and H2O.

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What I have in mind in installation of two smallest possible vented wall heaters, one in each of two 8 x 11 rooms, one an office and the other a bathroom. Both heaters will supplement our chief existing heating facilities installed in nearby room during the coldest weather.
Are these rooms too small for this?
Dennis
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snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net (Dennis) wrote:

There is more to consider than just the size of the room. A tiny room that is open to the rest of the house, or has a couple windows and a door is less likely to become a CO hazard than a larger, tighter, room that is closed up.
I'd be leary of any size in a bathroom as it is most likely to be turned on high when the door is closed & bathrooms are usually one of the tighter rooms in a house. Check with your local ordinances as they are likely to forbid a ventless in a bathroom for that reason.
Jim
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