Used car prices: UP

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On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:05:34 -0600, Vic Smith

I knew enough to stay away - but I know lots of people who had them. I DID have a TransSport van - of all the used cars I've owned, perhaps the most dissapointing. I happen to know quite a bit about used cars - having been a mechanic for several decades.

Which year Malibu?

Based on what? Yes, in real dollars they are high - but as a percentage of the original cost they are more reasonable.

OK. If you are too thisk to get "apples to apples" compare the 5 year old value of a 1998 impala to the 5 year old value of a 2004 impala, and a 2008 impala.
Comparing the comparative value of different generations of Malibu's is not as good, because the different generations are totally different cars with the same nameplate. The Lumina and the Malibu are totally different vehicles as well. As far as loosing value, the 2000 Lumina averages out at $3125. Only $325 less for the 99, $125 less for the '98, $75 less for a '97, $50 less for a '96, the '95 is the same value as the '96, $50 less for the earlier generation '94, $125 less for the '93, and $175 less($2125) for the '92 - which is as far back as KBB goes.
That's the bottom end. $300 difference between bottom and top for the '92, and no difference between top and bottom condition of a 2012.
Pretty much tells the story - Fully depreciatied at 12 years. In comparison, a Ford Taurus ranges from $2400 for a 1990, to $5070 for a 2000.
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On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 20:56:49 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Wait a minute. You're not making sense. You say you were a mechanic, and know used cars, but you drove a TransSport and weren't happy with it. How did that happen? I haven't bought a used car anywhere close to "disappointing" in 40 years. Besides, I have no idea what a TranSport has to do with a Lumina. The TranSport is a mini-van. The Lumina is a sedan.. Maybe you can set up something for me to knock down. I'll just tell you now I don't respect anything you've got to say to me about used cars. I've got a better track record. Reminds me of how you were telling me about the "only right way" to wire an inverter. Didn't make sense for my application, but that didn't stop you. And besides all that, you trashed the '97 Lumina and now admit you neither owned one or put a wrench to one. A "real" professional mechanic who actually knows something about cars says something like,, "expect to change the water pump at 60k miles," or "the original 3.8 and 3.1 intake manifold gaskets are known to fail." Not you. Just blindly call a car a POS. I know more than you ever will about the cars I buy and drive, that's for sure. That's natural because I wrench them myself, and it's something you should get used to. You won't catch me telling you about your cars that I know nothing about. Watch your arrogance. Most folks don't like that.

No sense complicating this. As models are discontinued you compare brand and size platforms. Chevy discontinued the "mid-size family sedan" Celebrity, and replaced it with the Lumina. They discontinued the Lumina and the replacement is the Malibu. It's the only sensible way I know of to measure my used car costs, because that's how I roll. I'll let Civic/Corolla, Accord/Camry folks use their own methods, but despite keeping the same model names, their platform changes are more extreme than the Chevy models I mentioned over the same time period. So I disagree about who is being "thick" here about apples and oranges.

Yeah, but I never buy 12 year old fully depreciated cars. My sweet spot used to be 7-8. It's about to change to 3-6 because of the changing prices as they relate to age and milage. I thought I already told you the book on my '97 was about $3k when it 8 years old, not fully depreciated. The 2000 Lumina figure you give is about the same for a 12 year old car. Get it? Used car prices are UP.

I'll take your word for that. But it has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
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On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 22:34:48 -0600, Vic Smith

Same vehicle, different sheet metal.
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I don't know why you confuse a U-body mini-van with a W-body sedan. But you do. Nobody mentioned Lumina APV or mini-van. And "sedan" was specified above. I suspect you and Clare are the same type of "mechanic."
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:16:38 -0600, Vic Smith

What do you think those bodies are sitting on? What do you think the drivetrain and the like are? Stylist go to great lengths to fool people into thinking car makers offer a big line of cars, not just a few. Worked for you.
Ever compare a Ford Contour and Jaguar? In the case of older Jags, ever check the Chevy tranny in them?
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WTF? Now you say a Jag is a Chevy. When will it end? BTW, the sheet metal you mentioned above? The mini-vans had plastic body panels. Next you'll be saying an F-150 is the same as a Taurus. Get real. And quit digging with a teaspoon in competition with somebody operating a backhoe. What is you drive, Hyudai? Stick to what you know.
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"In May 1977, it was announced that automatic transmission version of the twelve-cylinder cars would be fitted with a General Motors three-speed THM 400 transmission in place of the British built Borg-Warner units used hitherto."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_XJ
Go piss up a rope, dolt.
nb
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Wow. Another one saying a Jaguar is really a Chevy - because he reads in Wiki that Jag used a GM trans. Never expected to such stupid shit. So it looks like it will never end. But it's all good. Dopes are always part of the mix.
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:41:04 -0600, Vic Smith

Rolls used the Hydramatic too - doesn't make it a Chevy. BUT that does not negate the fact that many "platforms" are shared between "manufacturers"
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On 11/11/2012 5:32 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Na, now they're VW or BMW or is it the other way around? O_o
TDD
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On Nov 12, 12:42am, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky- finger.net> wrote:

Rolls Royce cars was sold off to BMW. I think the gearbox was German even before that though.
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On 11/12/2012 3:21 AM, harry wrote:

I read something about BMW getting Rolls and VW getting Bentley with all sorts of machinations going on about BMW supplying V12 engines for the big cars. O_o
TDD
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 18:42:26 -0600, The Daring Dufas

Interestingly, VW paid millions for Rolls Royce - but did not do their due dilligence. They got everything except the NAME. They can NOT build Rolls Royce cars. That's whay they are all Bentleys. No Rolls Royce cars being built any more - and very possibly never will be.
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On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:20:05 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

OK - looks like I got that wrong.
Looks like VW bought the Bentley and Rolls manufacturing rights etc but not the Rolls name - as I stated - BUT, the Rolls name was "licenced" to BMW - so BMW can build a car and call it a Rolls, but they cannot build the old rolls - while VW can build the old Rolls, but has to sell it as a Bentley.
What a screwed up sale that was.
Rolls was devided into Rolls PLC and Rolls Motors. back in 1973. Renamed Bentley Motors it was sold to VW in 1998. Bentleys were using BMW engines at that time - and BMW and VW battled for what was then still known as Rolls Royce Motors - VW won - but did not get the Rolls Royce name, and now operates as Bentley Motors. Rolls Royce PLC licenced the Rolls Royce name to BMW who then formed RollsRoyce Motor Cars as a wholly owned subsidiary
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 14:07:21 -0600, Vic Smith

Some Jags were Lincolns, some were Contours, and some (pre ford days) WERE Jags. The "platforms" used today are used by many models from the same manufacturer - which can cross not only models but brands.
Same with engines. The "world" 2.4 is used by hyundai, mitsubishi Chrysler,and Kia. A few yeara ago the V6 used by Peugot, Renault, Citreon, DeLorean, and Volvo was all the same engine (Douvrin).
The Cadillac Caterra was an Opel - as is the current Malibu and some of the last saturns. Also known as a Vauxhaul or Holden, depending where you are.
The malibu Epsilon platform was used on the Opel Vectra and Signum, the Pontiac G6, the Saturn Aura, etc.
Most of the smaller GMs share DNA with either Suzuki or Daewoo.
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 18:30:15 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I've not tracked down the origins, but I'm sure my 2.0 Turbo is shared by others too. Mitsubishi, Audi, and a few others have the same size.
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Just because AMC and GM both had a 327 does NOT mean they were the same engine. Even Pontiac, Buick, Chevy and Olds used to have their own totally separate 350 (and 400 I believe) and checy had both BBC and SBC 400 engines at the same time.
Of course today there is a LOT more cross-polination than there was back then. The "world engine" DOES come in many different displacements - shared among the same players. Audi and Mits do not share. Mits does share with Chrysler, Hyundai/Kia ( and possiblya couple of others)
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There were plenty, even back then. My parent's '64 Saab was powered by a Ford V4. Perhaps not a factory offering, but Jag XJ's with small block Chevy engines are a common mod in CA. So much so, you can shop for one. Ford made Anglia's in UK starting in the late 30s. Opel was a German subsidary of GM... yada yada....
nb
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Anglia was to Ford UK what Galaxy or Fairlane was to Ford North America. Also known as the ford "Pop", for Popular, it was the 2 door car, while the Ford 4 door Pop was called a Prefect.
Opel Was GM Germany - and Vauxhaull became GM Great Britain - Taunus was Ford's German arm, and Rootes (singer, sunbeam, humber,) became Chrysler's british arm, with Simca the french Chrysler
Australia had Holden as GM Australia until it (I believe) separated off into it's own company - stilll closely allied with GM.
GM bought the bankrupt Daewoo in Korea - and owned the majority of Japan's Isuzu. Not sure what the current status of Isuzu is.
Ford has cross polinated with both Mitsubishi and Mazda over the years - and mitsubishi also with Chrysler.
Nissan and Renault are basically the same company today.
Over the years, designs crossed from one "division" to the other - with the Chevette being one of the first "world cars" built and sold as a Vauxhaul in GB, an Opel in Gemany and a Chev in North America (as well as a Pontiac Acadian or T1000 in Canada) while the Vauxhaul HC (while not a "world car) was sold as a Pontiac Firenza in Canada -.
The sunbeam (rootes)was sold in north america as a plymouth cricket and Plymouth Arrow for a year or so, and then the Mitsubishi colt was sold as both a Dodge Colt and a Plymouth Cricket as well as a Dodge Challenger and a Plymouth Sapporro.
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 14:07:21 -0600, Vic Smith

No, you are making things up. I said the Jag used Chevy transmissions. That was before they ware bought by Ford.

Yes, a 2013 Sonata with the turbo engine. Nice car, and fast too.
You may want to check out the Sonata/Santa Fe and Elantra/Tucson underpinnings. Pretty much the same idea as the Lumina/TranSport family
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