USA normalizes relations with Cuba

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wrote:

Forget it - it's obvious you lost the thread long ago and are intent on just being a jerk
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wrote:

Which is where and why I mentioned Ulias.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I forgot to say I'm descended from a long line of jerks and horse thieves. You're right though. I doubt Buman lives in Cuba and I still fail to see what significance he has.
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Oren wrote:

Probably. I have to assume any that showed up in North America had some reason to leave Europe. At least for one line it probably was Bismarck's Kulturkampf against Catholics. What I wouldn't expect to find is the ever popular nobility that many amateur genealogical researchers find.
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On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:27:55 -0500, Stormin Mormon

He was actually on the stage when the Cuban brass made some announcment at the same time Pres. Obama did. I think he's about 24 now.
Back when he was an issue, it was ridiculous to think he could be kept from his father just because of politics.
But if the politiicans who tried to make hay out of Elian Gonzales had really cared about him, they would have passed bill making him a US citizen. Then when he got back to Cuba, and he was 18 or so, he could go to any other country and assert his rights as an American, get a passport, and move here. He might even try one of those little boats and sail out to any ship not owned by Cuba, or head for the US and when picked up by our Coast Guard, not be bound by wet feet - dry feet, since he would be an American. But they gave him nothing.

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There would have been no guns involved if they had obeyed the law. If someone were disobeying a court decision you liked, I'm sure you would want it enforced, even if guns were needed. (and the picture showed his finger off trigger, as procedure dictates in such a situation. )

And they did the right thing.
His mother had equal rights to him when she was alive, although I don't think you'd like it if your ex-wife took your only kid to a foreign country without asking you.
But once she was dead, his father's rights way trumped his uncle's or aunt's and any political gain anyone foresaw by continuing his kidnapping from his father.
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On Saturday, January 3, 2015 1:39:53 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:

You make it sound like Cuba is France. It's not. Those supporting allowing the grandparents to keep the child here, in the land of the free, know the history of the brutal Castro govt. Suppose in a similar circumstance a child today made it to South Korea or the USA, with their mother dying trying to get to freedom, was now with their grandparents and a father in North Korea wanted them back? What would you do? Now, I'm not saying Cuba is as bad as NK, but if you were a Cuban living in Miami, that had all your property taken by Castro, relatives shot, had to flee for your life, etc, you might think so.
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2015 05:38:32 -0800 (PST), trader_4
I just came across thiis post. Posted and Mailed because I'm not sure you would see my post if I don't email.
I snipped nothing from your post.

NO I DIDN'T.
I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHIHG ABOUT CUBA
and DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.
Is that how you try to win arguments?

It doesn't matter. The boys father lived there.

They were't brutal to his father.

Now you want me to put myself in the shoes of his family in Miami or a similar family in SK. You're changing the topic. I never criticized them for wanting to keep the kid. What I said was that they didn't obey the law and Janet Reno did the right thing. And she did.
And if you were in his father's shoes, you'd agree with me.
But if somehow the decision had been for him to stay in the US but his father was taking him back to Cuba, then just like I said above, you'd want the police to enforce the court's decision, even if it mean using guns.
For you it depends on whose ox is being gored.
If people in the US were actually pro-Elian instead of just being anti-Communists, someone would have suggested and the Congress could easily have given him citizenship. Private bills that give citizenship to individuals are not unusual in Congress. Then he could go back to Cuba with his father and any time after he was 18, he could travel to any other country, not just the US, and assert his American citizenship and move here. He could row out on boat and he woudln't have had to get to the US with dry feet. If any boat from any country other than Cuba, Russia, and maybe Venezuela picked him up, he could assert his US citizenship and come to the US. If the US Coast Guard or border patrol or whatever found him, they would take him straight to Florida and he'd be a citizen here. But he can't do any of that.
But other than his Miami family in the US, no one gave a darn about him. It was all politics.
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2015 05:38:32 -0800 (PST), trader_4

    We have been over this. Not all Americans are free, only the stupid ones. The free ones are used to fight wars and make fortunes for the bright, quite expensive ones that call themselves politicians.     []'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 01:49:46 +0100, nestork

It's not normalized relations that would change cars. It's an end to the embargo, which is in Congress's hands.
How come they have no new Japanese cars there? No one can afford them??

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On Saturday, January 3, 2015 1:41:15 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:

Bingo. Too many people believe that somehow it's the trade embargo from the USA that's responsible for all the economic problems in Cuba. Sure, the USA is highly desireable, close by, potential trading partner. But there is the whole rest of the world. Their failure is 90% their own doing. When you confiscate private property, ban foreign investment, force the brain trust of the country to flee for their lives, ban private business, etc, bad things happen. That's why they are still driving around in 50s Chevys.
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On 1/3/2015 8:44 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Didn't the Ruskes bring in some cars? Of course a 40 year old Chevy is probably better than a brand new Lada or Volga.
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Rubio used to say that his parents came to the US fleeing Castro, but it turned out they came before Castro, so he does't say it anymore.
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It's not what you think. It's what Cubans who live in America think, and they think there's an enormous difference.

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I guess so.
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On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 14:52:12 -0800 (PST), trader_4

That doesn't mean anything. He's a Cuban. Whatever a Cuban's position on Cuba is will trump hisr party, will trump whether he's a liberal or conservative, and just about everything else. Same for immigrants and the children of immigrants from everywhere.
Doh!

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On Saturday, January 3, 2015 1:51:17 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:

So because the head of the Senate Foreign Relations committee is a Cuban, his opinion doesn't count? I suppose that because he's Cuban, that's also the reason he pissed all over Obama on Iran just a few months ago too, by calling for tough new sanctions, while Obama was kissing their asses. Maybe because he's Cuban he's better informed on Cuba than the typical Dem. And part of the point was not that Menendez disagrees with Obama, it's also the vehement, hostile way he openly expressed it. A lot of Dems are fed up with Obama now and aren't going to carry water for him.
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It might have accomplished a lot more. It was worth a try. And Castro might have fallen when the Soviet Union did, but that was 24 years ago. It hasnt' accomplished anything for decades.
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