USA normalizes relations with Cuba

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rbowman;3325624 Wrote: >

>

Pussy Riot was arrested for making a loud and noisy spectacle in a church that offended the sensibilities of most of the church goers in attendance. Pussy Riot called that a "prayer" if I recall correctly, but most of the people in the church called it an obscenity. Unfortunately, Russia never had a law against offending the sensibilities of an entire church full of people, so they got charged with hooliganism instead. I think the Russian courts simply wanted to let Pussy Riot know when enough was enough.
And, I'm not sure I'd call China a "communist" country anymore. They were communist for a long time, but now they seem to be just as capitalistic as their arch enemy; Taiwan. There is an unspoken social contract in China. If the government makes you wealthier and makes your life easier, you don't criticize the government. Both sides seem to be holding up their side of that agreement, so what we have is 1.6 or so billion people all wanting to buy their own condos and cars, living under a supposedly "Communist" government that now allows private ownership of property. It's perhaps Communism wearing a completely new wardrobe.
--
nestork


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On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 06:20:43 +0100, nestork

China is now a totalitarian capaitalistic society who's long-running communist experiment has dismally failed but the leaders are not ready yet to admit it. Religious freedom is only a dream for most. Freedom FROM religion is more accurate. Religion, and Christianity in particular, is thriving in Cuba. Of all "Communist" countries, Cuba has perhaps made it work better than most. Freedom of religion is most absent in the Islamic Republics and India, where Christians in particular are being slaughtered at a very alarming rate. In the decade of 2010-2020, if the current trend continues, more Christians will die for their faith than in the previous 2000 years combined.
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On Thursday, December 25, 2014 9:19:30 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I wouldn't call them capitalistic just yet. With reforms, they have instituted many elements of capitalism. But there are plenty of elements of communism still left with state owned "collectives" and farmers given "leases", being one example. The only place that is truly capitalistic is Hong Kong/Macau and that is treated as a special region, not under the same rules as the rest of China.

I don't think that's true. China has to approve churches and keeps them on a leash. But they do have millions of Christians, Muslims, etc that attend those churches, etc. It's far from a total ban on religion. It's kind of like their approach to capitalism.

The questions is, what is the world prepared to do about that?
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Are you counting Christians killed by Christians for not having quite the right flavor of faith in those 2000 years?
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wrote:

Yes, I am counting my Anabaptist ancestors killed by the Lutherans and Catholics as part of that tally.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

That must have been when the Lutherans and Catholics took a break from killing each other. The Anabaptists were mostly central Europe, weren't they, so they probably didn't get in the way of the Catholics and Huguenots killing each other in France.
Then there was the earlier Albigensian Crusade where the noble phrase "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" that is often misquoted today as "Kill them all. Let God sort them out." originated.
Prior to that we have the Northern Crusades. Some Baltic pagans got caught in the crossfire but that was primarily the Catholic and Orthodox fighting it out.
Going even further back, wiping out Arian Christianity wasn't a bloodless affair either.
Oh, and I almost forgot the convolutions of British history with the Puritans, Presbyterians, Anglicans and Catholics. The one constant was the Irish Catholics getting the short end of the stick.
All that religious freedom migrated to the American colonies where the first thing the Puritans did was hang a few Quakers before they got down to killing witches.
Islamists and Hindu nationalists in India killing Christians are really going to have to get busy to match the body count of Christian on Christian wars and persecutions. Mostly though the Moslems seem to be content killing each other in the finest tradition.
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wrote:

The entire world population back before the 1300s was very small compared to today. - aprox. 360 million. In 1000AD it was only 265 million. The total number of humans who have lived on earth between 33AD and 2000AD is aprox 36,673,000,000 Over this same period there have been 8,344,000,000 Christians In this same period, 69,420,000 christians have been killed for their beliefs - 5,578,000 of these killed by other christians
Of these 69,420,000 christians killed over the last 2000 years, 45,400,000 were killed between 1900 and 2000AD. Of these, 13,3000,000 have been killed since 1950.
Since 2000 the average has been 160,000 per year, and this is increasing at an alarming rate both in the north African and middle eastern Islamic states , the micronesian islamic states, and the indian subcontinent
These numbers come from the Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24864587
According to the BBC analysis, the bulk of the numbers come from Christians killing Christians in the DR Congo civil war. It has nothing to do with religion, just that there are Christians on both sides.
I would also guess '45,400,000 were killed between 1900 and 2000AD.' is counting the Christian dead of WWI and WWII. Again it had nothing to do with religion but both sides of the conflict happened to be Christian.
I don't know how good Gordon Conwell is at theology, but they are extremely poor at producing meaningful statistics -- unless their intent is alarmist propaganda.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca;3325969 Wrote: >

I don't know how one could come up with reasonable estimates of the world's population centuries ago when it's known that there's an anomoly in the amount of diversity there is in human DNA.
Studies have shown that the amount of diversity in the DNA of human population groups around the world is less than it should be presuming that people evolved from apes over the past 1.2 million years. The amount of diversity suggests that at some time in our past, there was a mass extinction of people and only a small fraction of humans on this Good Earth survived.
Scientists believe that that mass extinction occured around the time of the last ice age, which ended about 25,000 years ago. It is believed that the Earth cooled significantly and the people who lived in the northern latitudes largely starved to death, leaving a very much smaller genetic pool than would have been the case assuming normal population growth over the past 1.2 million years.
So, the population of the Earth 25,000 years ago is anyone's guess, and the extent to which it was culled as a result of that mass extinction is another SWAG (scientific wild a$$ed guess). All we know for sure is that there was a mass extinction that greatly reduced the human population, but what fraction of humans survived is unknown.
--
nestork


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nestork wrote:

They're evangelicals; the bible told them so.
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 08:29:34 +0100, nestork

The population figures I gave are fairly verifiable, as they only go back TWO thousand years - not 20,000.
The DNA disersity also supports the theory that man in his current form has not existed on this earth in it's current form for more than, possibly, 25,000 years.(and quite possibly considerably less)
I am not an evolutionist, but also not a strictly orthodox creationist.
The population of most of the "great civilizations" of the last 20 centuries are fairly verifiable though surviving census data etc. My own family history is documented back over 700 years, which is a third of the way back - largely through census and taxation records.
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wrote:

Actually, the bible - particularly the new testament, but also the old testament from the time of Abraham on, is the most historically verifiable religious text in the world, and one of the most verifiable ancient texts period - and as the years go by more of the ancient place names are being discovered and verified, along with historic events that were mentioned in the biblical texts and not in any other known historic records back in the 18th and 19th centuries. Archeological finds over the last 200+ years have uncovered much that agrees with and supports the old testament biblical record. Some of the old testament is more aligorical -and is not meant as an accurate historical record .
Dating creation using the old testament "timeline" back to Adam, I believe, is a mis-use of scripture
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca;3326155 Wrote: >

No, antropologists have bone remnants to support the fact that we evolved from apes over the past 1.2 million years or so in Africa, and spread over the surface of the Earth from there. The kinds of homonid that lived in Europe only 25,000 years ago would have been virtually indistinguishable from modern man.
The discovery of "Otzi", the "Ice man" who is currently preserved in a frozen state in a museum in Tyrol, Italy is believed to have lived about 5,000 years ago. The copper ax he carried with him was CAST out of nearly pure copper and the sharp end was hammered to stress harden it before it was sharpened. The quality of the workmanship in that ax shows that the craftsmen that lived 5000 years ago were just as good as the best blacksmiths that work in iron and steel today.
The shoes the iceman wore are in fact surprisingly warm and comfortable considering they were made of grass netting, hay and dear and bear skin.
What we find when we look to the past is that people were as intelligent and resourceful as they are today; they just didn't have the benefit of the modern technology that make our lives easier. But, when it comes to crafts and skills, they were just as good working with wood, bone and leather as any craftsman working in those materials today.
So, the idea that man can have "arisen" at some point 5,000 years ago, (or whatever creationism preaches) with all the knowledge already in his head to be able to craft copper, wood, bone and leather into such finely made furnishings as we can make today out of those same materials is absurd. This would have required the same craftsmanship as we know was present in the middle ages in Europe. Young men would learn a craft from someone very knowledgeable in that craft, thereby allowing each generation to pass on it's technology to the next. There's no reason to believe that life 25,000 years ago was significantly different than it was in medieval Europe only about 1000 years ago.
--
nestork


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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Fine, but it's not my history.
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wrote:

With the last namr Bowman there is a strong chance your ancestry also traces back to Ulius "Julius the Farmer" Buman ,who was born about 1369 in Zimmerberg Switzerland and died in 1425
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

And there is a stronger chance that it doesn't. It's not Smith but it is a common name that can be the result of the phoenetic spelling of any number of European surnames by anglophones and well as the craft name from Britain.
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rbowman;3326307 Wrote: > snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> a

> number

> Britain.
Exactly. How many Coopers are decended from someone who made wooden barrels. How many Milners are decended from someone who made hats.
How many Bowmans are decended from someone who was a particularily good archer. Alternatively, how many Bowmans are decended from someone who cut wood in the King's forest for making long bows and arrows for the King's guard. Here in Winnipeg, our newly elected mayor is named Brian Bowman, so there's a lot of Bowmans kicking around.
--
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Many Baumans. Bulmers. Bowmans, Baumans, and Balmers hark back to Urie Buman if there is germanic/swiss backround.
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nestork wrote:

And how many Bowman's are descended from people that never were anywhere near the British isles? In the graveyard where many of my people are buried you can see my grandmother's maiden family name morphing over the years. The oldest stones have an umlaut, the newer one the oe dipthong, and finally all that's left is the e.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

And why is he of any particular interest? All I can say for certain is I had ancestors in the 13th century that passed on the chain of life. I had ancestors someplace when Moses was trying to find his ass in the desert but probably not in that part of the world.
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