USA normalizes relations with Cuba

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I just heard this on the radio today. Barak Obama has announced that his administration will be normalizing relations with Cuba, thereby ending trade sanctions against Cuba that have endured since 1959, or over 50 years.
In his announcement, Obama cited that no OTHER country in the world had partnered with the US in imposing trade sanctions against Cuba; the USA was the only one imposing their own trade sanctions on Cuba. And that the USA has had normal trade relations with China, another communist government, for well over 30 years now.
Apparantly, secret talks between American and Cuban officials have been going on for several months now, with many of those meetings taking place in Canada.
People should be advised that this change represents a tremendous potential windfall for Americans. Cuba can replace Mexico and China as a source for cheap labour in the manufacture of goods for the US market. Wages in Cuba are low, and they are located very much closer to the US mainland, and so US companies would not have to pay the higher shipping cost to ship finished products from China.
Also, in the 1940's and 1950's, Cuba was the American playground, just like Las Vegas is now. The beautiful beaches and climate that drew tourists to Cuba back then still exist today, and once hotels are built to cater to tourists, there's no reason to believe Americans (and Canadians and Europeans) won't be going back to Cuba as a vacation destination. Cuba's money is cheap, which means you can vacation like a king down there for less than the same vacation would cost you in Mexico or worse, Hawaii.
20 years from now, I expect Cuba will be a highly industrialized country whose factories produce inexpensive goods for the North American market, just like China does now, and who's climate attracts tourists from all over North America, just like Mexico does now.
Today might very well become an annual civic holiday in Cuba.
PS: Relations between US Presidents and Canadian Prime Ministers haven't always been smooth. One of our Canadian Prime Ministers, Pierre Elliiot Trudeau, got on Washington's "naughty list" when he personally befriended Fidel Castro and invited him to visit Canada. I don't know if Castro ever took Trudeau up on that offer or not, but Trudeau spoke very highly of Castro saying that he was using Cuba's economy to help the poor people of Cuba. And, in Cuba, pretty well everyone is poor, which is why Cuba can replace China as a manufacturing center.
--
nestork


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On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 21:17:26 +0100, nestork

Dang!!! Now we will have to share Cuba with all the Yanks again!!! We Canafians have been enjoying Cuba's beaches and resorts for years. They have some pretty nice hotels and resorts
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On 12/17/2014 4:30 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I'd like to visit. Maybe bring back a '55 Chevy.
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On 12/17/2014 5:00 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Maybe go visit the hotel where Elian Gonzalez works, since we sent him back?
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 4:17:12 PM UTC-5, nestork wrote:

That's because the vast majority of the property that the commies stole was US owned. So, I wouldn't expect France to be as pissed, would you? But I bet if the Germans nationalized property owned by French citizens, stole all church property, executed anyone that stood in their way, denied basic human freedoms, then maybe France would do something too.
Apparantly, secret talks between American and Cuban officials have been

Why not? Castro sees that Obama is a weak dummy, desperate for anything to try to glom onto in his last two years, to take focus off all his other failures. Castro sees how Putin rolled him real good. He sees how the Iranians are rolling him.

Good grief. China ia an economic powerhouse with the largest economy in the world, a huge industrial and manufacturing base. Cuba is driving around in 50's Chevys and eating donkey meat. Cuba stole businesses that were there in 1960. The same assholes are still running the place. They haven't allowed foreign investment until very recently. I don't think China has anything to fear for a very long time.

Who's going to build those hotels in a communist country run by the brother's Castro, who stole all the hotels the last time? I guess they could start by paying for what they took. Adjusted for inflation, that should take a century or so.
there's no reason to believe Americans (and

Sure, it's going to become an industrial giant, just because Obama is going to open an embassy. I'd be interested in seeing exactly what Obama can legally do anyway. I'll bet the law that imposed most of the economic blockade can't be undone without Congress and good luck getting that changed now with the Republicans in control. I think it's even doubtful he can convince the Democrats. Plenty of them know what Cuba is all about.

Did they make a holiday back in the 70's when they screwed another weak president, Jimmy Carter with the MAriel boatlift? Maybe they did. Now they can have two holidays, Jimmy Day and Obama Day. An extra ration of burro meat for all!

At least you Canadians didn't steal US assets, businesses, the property of your own people, deny basic human rights and try to put Russian nukes in Canada. You think Obama is gonna get fugitive cop killer Joanne Chesimard back as part of his sweet deal with the Castros?
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something like that. Normalizing relations will not necessarily mean all of a sudden Cubans will be able to buy cheap cars. Only recently they are actually allowed to buy and sell vehicles -at a price of 20 years or more wages for the average Cuban worker for a used Chinese or Russian taxi cab.
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has an absolute right under the constitution to normalize diplomatic relations, the trade sanctions are all laws and (IIRC) very specific.

"Only Obama can go to Cuba?"
--
?Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.?
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On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 5:40:53 PM UTC-5, Kurt Ullman wrote:

Of course not. Nestor seems to be having a problem today. Something about a dial-up line so he only gets bits of the news, then makes up the rest.
Obama can take some limited steps on his own, which he said he would do. IDK if even that is legal, you have to watch him like a hawk. But he's going to allow more currency exchange, more liberal visiting rules, etc. That's a long way from ending the embargo. And good luck with that. Menendez, a fellow lib and head of the Senate FRC, already pissed all over what Obama has already done. Doh!
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wrote:

I don't know but I hope so. The entire thing was stupid, pointless and accomplished nothing.
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On 12/17/2014 6:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:

Allowed Castrol to rule over the populace with a well lubricated iron fist, as the peasants were starving and poor.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On 12/17/2014 02:17 PM, nestork wrote:

<snip>
Holy cow I thought for sure you were joking.
I swear that I was just talking about this with someone about two days ago and said that since the US has normalized relations with China, Russia , Vietnam....you name it...we might as well have them with Cuba too. I honestly think it's a good thing. They will probably come off very well selling all their vintage cars to US collectors.
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On 12/17/2014 7:28 PM, philo wrote:

Years ago, there were two books "How children learn" and "how children fail". Author, I think it was Bill Hull.
He quoted another elementary school teacher, asking "what is your goal, and are you getting there"? Fifty years of Cuba embargo. I'm not sure what was the goal, or if we made any progress. It's worth a look, I think.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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Yeah, I expect the first big change in America as a result of normalizing relations with Cuba will be a flood of 1957 Chevrolet Impalas and 1956 Ford Fairlanes up for sale in Used Car Buyer's Guides.
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On 12/17/2014 7:49 PM, nestork wrote:

My guess is a lot of reporters go to Cuba, and Castrol locks them in prison. To exchange for Cubans who were convicted in the USA.
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wrote:

Exactly right.
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On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 01:49:46 +0100, nestork

of work to get them back to original, or even in many cases, acceptable shape. I've seen many and ridden in several of them. 1959 ford custom with straight axle, like a gasser, and a russian tractor diesel engine with a pretty good 10 foot paint job in every day taxi service with over 4 million miles on the clock. A 55 chevy with a Mercedes 200 diesel and the bodywork perforated like a sand sifter. Mileage unknown. And a couple nice 1940's chevy fleetbacks in Havana. Some other pretty nice looking cars, but the vast majority are not what they look like. Cuban law will not allow their export, and the prices they were changing hands at in Cuba would buy a fully restored or nice pro-touring modified stateside,
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On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:32:00 -0500, Stormin Mormon

along with totally free health care and education. The average Cuban does not live well, but they do better than just survive.
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On 12/17/2014 11:08 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

http://www.csmonitor.com/1995/0612/12062.html
The Christian Science Monitor
June 12, 1995    
HAVANA — LAURA FRAILE ROMERO holds open a tattered coin purse to reveal a few small coins and a 10-peso bill.
"Do you think I can make it to the end of the month on that?" she asks. "The truth is, I go to bed hungry at night."
The retired English teacher is waiting for the doors to open for lunch at Comedor 75, a soup kitchen for retired workers in Old Havana. Today, she will pay 50 centavos - about two pennies - for rice, beans, and soup. It's a bargain, but on a state pension that equals a little over $2 a month, every penny counts. Recommended: Could you pass a US citizenship test?
Miss Fraile puts a face on a topic that remains controversial here: the existence - or not - of hunger in Cuba.
That hunger exists in Latin America, or even in the wealthy United States, is never questioned. But in Communist Cuba, hunger is the kind of problem that was not supposed to happen.
Even if little else remained, the pride of Fidel Castro Ruz's revolution was still that children went to school, health care was free - and no one went hungry.
Now even Cuban officials say the country's economic collapse, steep declines in food production, a free fall in food imports since the loss of fat Soviet subsidies in 1992, and the US trade embargo have caused continuing problems in meeting Cubans' food needs. While they hesitate to speak of "hunger," they readily refer to "unmet needs."
"Yes, there are needs that these days are not always filled," says Jose Gonzalez, director of Comedor 75. He makes no effort to counter the claims of those, like Fraile, who complain of hunger. He only says, "Maybe the hungry ones don't come here again for dinner, they have that right."
But other Cubans claim that hunger is in fact a growing problem. Even Mr. Castro acknowledged that the "basic basket" of subsidized foods guaranteed Cuban families does not meet basic needs - which is one reason the farmers' markets were reintroduced last year.
One monthly ration of food is actually only enough to feed an individual for 10 days, according to the National Association of Independent Economists of Cuba, a group of dissident economists that support a rapid transition to a market economy.
Milk is rationed and only available for children up to age 7. Families with children between 7 and 13 can get two pounds of yoghurt a month. The elderly are allowed some milk in powdered form. A family in Havana is rationed seven eggs a month, a provincial family three. Rice, cabbage, bananas, everything is carefully rationed.
"Children go to school hungry, and hungry children don't learn," says Marta Beatriz Roque, an economist with the National Association of Independent Economists of Cuba.
But with little open acknowledgment of the problem, Cubans are left to anecdotal evidence that hunger exists.
A Mexican woman in Havana says she went to see her Cuban husband's family on the eastern end of the island recently and found they had not eaten for three days. "They had no food," she says.
A Cuban journalist whose work focuses on women says many people she talks with report pinning skirt waists or cinching belts another notch to keep their pants on. "A lot of people definitely aren't eating their fill," she says.
Hunger here is starting to get some international attention. Oxfam America, for example, sent its Caribbean program director to Cuba last month and may be considering establishing an assistance program there for the first time.
Still, a topic that strikes at the heart of the Cuban revolution remains controversial here, even among ordinary Cubans. Back at Comedor 75, Fraile no sooner speaks of her own experience with hunger than a man beside her calls her a "liar."
"What she says is a false attack on the achievements of the revolution," says Porfirio Rodriguez, also waiting for lunch at Comedor 75. "There may be needs, but in Cuba, there is no hunger." Related Stories
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

I think we should make Cruz and Rubio joint ambassadors to Cuba. They are Cubans after all and it'll keep them out of trouble.
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'Oren[_2_ Wrote: > ;3322791']

I think the social experiment that was communism is officially dead. People now understand that sharing your nothing with everyone simply eliminates the incentive and desire we all have to get ahead of the rest of the pack.
We evolved from apes. Apes are territorial. The food on their territory is THEIR food and they'll kill you if you help yourself to it. And, that's pretty much the way we are. We're greedy. No other word cuts through to capture the true essence of evolution than "greed".
Perhaps if we evolved from ants or bees, we'd be different, but greed is essential to motivate every individual in the population to take a chance by striking out on their own in any venture they believe will pay off; whether that means starting a business or robbing a bank, it all arises from greed.
Communism stifles that incentive by making everyone equal. Only the party leaders are more equal than everyone else, and therefore enjoy a much better lifestyle than everyone else by using their position to steal as much as they can for themselves.
--
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