UPS... new battery or replace?

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Got an *ancient* (and I do mean ancient) APC UPS... all it does is back up my wireless router. Battery is done. new one I expect to cost $30-40 (which I find extortionate as I buy them for work at about $10 all day but still.)
options:
1) buy a new battery. Be happy for another 5 years or so. Cost $40 max.
2) buy a new true-online UPS for my PC, and rotate the old, sorta-decent one currently serving PC to wireless router duty. Would cost $266 for a 750VA unit with trade in (smallest one that qualifies for trade in credit) or $252 for a 1000VA unit (yeah, I don't understand that either.)
which would you do? This is an old UPS that I scavenged from a previous employer something like 7-8 years ago, and at that time it was being discarded because the battery was dead then, so it now could conceivably be as many as 15 years old.
I want to go true online but worth the cost? Have had no problems with my setup so far. (touch wood.)
nate
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What size battery is it? 12V 7AH?
-- Bobby G.
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On 02/16/2011 08:47 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:

decision just got more difficult. I thought all "Smart-UPS" products were true online, but they're not. However, they ARE the ones claimed to have a true sine wave output, not an "approximation" of a sine wave.
The real true-online deal would be $985, so that's off the table.
I do like the idea of giving my stuff cleaner power on battery, but then again, I'm thinking, just spend the $40 for a new battery, because nothing's blowed up so far? (well, truth be told, i've been going through wireless routers like candy, but previously I had same UPS running my PC, which is still fine, so I blame the routers.)
nate
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And I like the idea of being a multi-millionaire. But I'm not, so I live with what I've got.
APC UPS's are not "true online", and they don't make a true sine wave, but you know what? The equipment does not seem to give a shit one way or the other.
I've had Alphaservers and all sorts of network gear running tickety-boo for many years on cheapo APCs. Never an issue. If you have routers failing, it's because nobody does pre-delivery testing anymore. Testing costs more than shipping whatever came off the line and dealing with warranty claims when they happen. Remember when hard-drives were each individually tested, and the results written on a sticker /by hand/?
I think you can find better things to worry about. Buy a new anything-brand UPS and be happy. Unless you're the sort that /likes/ things held together with duct tape and chewing gum because it came for free. In that case, you're beyond help.
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Tegger

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On 2/16/2011 9:07 PM, Tegger wrote:

I had some Intertel phone systems that required true sine wave UPS units. This was back in the early 1990's and I don't run into that any more with newer phone systems.
TDD
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Hi Nate,
If your UPS has a line-conditioner and software "Parachute", I would replace the batt. You can get a 7.5 Ah gel-cell for $20 at an alarm-parts supplier.
If not, I'd go for one with a line conditioner and the safe-shutdown software.
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I think the first question here is what's the overall mission objective? I haven't had a UPS on any of my home computers or routers. The only problems I've had are if the power goes out, which is infrequent, I might lose whatever work I had open. Even that isn't for sure, as many apps do timed saves of the open documents, so you may only lose the last 15 mins.
I've never had a disk corrupted by the power failing, or anything like that. Nor can I recall ever losing any document, etc that I was working on that amounted to anything. So, I personally wouldn't spend $40, let alone several hundred on any UPS.
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On 02/16/2011 09:30 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I have had all of the above happen. In fact at one house in which I lived, the power went out so often that it managed to corrupt a PC that was running *LINUX*.
Thing was so obsolete it wasn't worth the time to reinstall... into the trash it went.
I won't be without a UPS again. I have two because if the cable modem and wireless router lose power even for a second or two it's annoying to wait for them to reboot.
nate
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Nate Nagel wrote:

I gave been living in this house for alnost 20 years since it's built. During that time total time for power outage was ~30 minutes. I don't think I need a UPS, just another thing to look after. We have 3 Desk top, 3 laptops scattered around in the house as well as WiFi Skype phone.
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You're lucky. Some places I've lived power has been pretty good. The place I'm thinking of though, as often as not the clock on the microwave would be flashing when I got home from work. The power would never *stay* out for long - it'd just blip out long enough to reset the clocks and reboot the computers. never went more than a couple days without that happening at least once. sometimes it'd happen several times a day.
For whatever reason, PEPCO seems to do a much better job than BG&E, so I'm glad I don't live in MD anymore (for many reasons.)
nate
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On 2/16/2011 8:38 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:

I'm with you Nate, every piece of computer gear I have is on a UPS. I had to reset the breaker last night when the electric heater warmed up the breaker enough. Computer, cable modem and router never skipped a a beat. :-)
TDD
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wrote:

About two weeks ago I got a memo saying that all equipment associated with a PC should be on the same breaker as the PC. Otherwise would be an unusual case but I'm sure it happens. Good advice for home entertainment equipment too.
Jimmie
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Wired networks are galvanically isolated.
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Consider yourself lucky... I went many years without a UPS for my computer. Despite my rural location, we rarely have power outages. I've always used high quality surge supressors, and backup regularly, so I wasn't overly concerned about power surges either.
Unfortunately, power "fluctuations" are usually more of a problem than a total outage, and I've lost both hardware and data because of them.
The typical situation is during wind storms where a tree falls on a power line. It doesn't knock the power out completely, but cycles it on and off several times a second, or drops the voltage way down (brown outs).
The first time it happened I lost a power supply. My system runs 24/7/365 so it could probably be said the supply was getting weak anyway, but the cycling and voltage surges were too much for it and it finally died.
The second time the brown outs and power cycling occurred while data was saving to my hard drive and it corrupted the drive. I had to reformat the drive and (thankfully) restore from a backup. No physical damage that time, but a lot of wasted time rebuilding the system.
We had a wind storm again a couple of months ago, and this time my computer wouldn't boot up. I installed a new power supply, but it was still dead. I pulled all PCI cards and got it to boot. Then I slowly added them one by one till I found the one that had failed (thankfully it was a tuner card I was no longer using anyway). Again, not a major expense, but a lot of wasted time trying to track down the problem.
My computer runs non-stop recording TV shows, controlling our home lighting, we use VOIP on the network for our phone service, and more. My home business also relies on my computer being up and running at all times. For me, the cost of a UPS was worth a little more insurance of keeping things running when there are power issues. Or at least have enough time to save files I'm working on and shut down cleanly.
I chose a Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD UPS for a little over $200:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102134 &Tpk=Cyberpower%20CP1500PFCLCD%20UPS
Of course, we haven't had any power problems since I hooked up the UPS, so I don't know for sure how it will handle similar power problems in the future. However, it has already recorded a few hundred "events", and kicks in to even out the power when my laser printers drop the voltage when they first kick on.
Anthony Watson Mountain Software www.mountain-software.com
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On 2/17/2011 10:09 AM, HerHusband wrote:

Are you leaving consumer grade computer equipment running 24/7?
TDD
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On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:16:46 -0600, The Daring Dufas

"as needed only" basis. But my "consumer grade" isn't DELL.
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On 2/17/2011 1:35 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I have an enterprise level work station that I use and I get them cheap from a company that sells medical office systems. When a customer upgrades, the computer company takes the several year old systems back to the shop, cleans out the hard drive and sells them. In 2009 I got several of the systems for me and a few friends. All 3GHz P4 with Hyper-Threading and they're darned fast. When new, the motherboards were quite expensive and high quality. 7200rpm Barracuda SATA hard drive and a SATA CD/DVD+RW along with a multi-memory card reader. Not the same low level of stoutness you see in the consumer supply channel. The only one I've had any problem with was the system I assembled for my friend's wife who closed the box up in a compartment under a desk and filled all gaps around it with papers and file folders. She smothered it during the summer, poor thing. It could just be the power supply, I don't know yet but I haven't seen any burned spots. I service point of sale systems from time to time and the Dell, HP/Compaq and IBM/Lenovo computers are not the same models for sale at Walmart, Office Depot, etc they're only distributed through the business and corporate supply channels. These computers are built with higher quality components and heavy duty power supplies. I've noticed they'll take a lot of abuse without gronking. Another item that is very different is the hard drive. The enterprise grade drives are designed to hammer away 24/7 with a high MTBF ratings and consumer grade drives are designed to operate with a certain number of hours of operation per month in mind. The drive that came with my PC is somewhere in between. Of course heat kills, keep the dirt out of your PC and it will last a lot longer, I find some of the dirtiest PC's in the cleanest of offices. :-)
TDD
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I'm not sure what you would consider "consumer grade" equipment, but yes, my home built computer has been running non-stop for over 5 years. I usually upgrade my system long before anything fails on it's own. I select many components for quietness and lower power consumption, which usually translates to higher quality as well.
Except for damage caused from power surges/outages, I have not had any hardware failures in many years (except for some faulty RAM I bought that started flaking out in the first couple of weeks). Hopefully the UPS will help reduce those rare failures.
Of course, something WILL eventually fail, or be damaged by external causes (power surges, fire, theft, etc.). So, I'm rather religeous about backing up routinely and swapping backups with drives I keep off site. I can always build a new computer, but I can't replace one of a kind data (photos, financial records, etc.).
Anthony Watson Mountain Software www.mountain-software.com
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On 2/18/2011 9:40 AM, HerHusband wrote:

You're a smart feller to backup your data. Do you clean the dust out of your PC on a regular basis?
TDD
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

Yep. I tell my customers "Hold my beer and watch this. Your computer is about to elect a new Pope!"
Squirt.
Sure enough, giant clouds of white smoke appear. The angles sing, the saints rejoice. God's voice (via the internet) is no longer muffled!
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