UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

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Tell UPS that you are not accepting the shipment and they should return it.
Dispute the charge with the CC company. This MUST be in writing and sent certified mail.
Next time buy from a local reputable company.
--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM\'er since CP-67
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buy 5 more see what happens
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Good advice Rich.
Sawney, sorry but i fell asleep somewhere between the 5th and 14th paragraph, did you happen to say who you purchased the ignitor from? Please let us know.
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Rich Greenberg wrote:

I'll do that. I think probably this one is okay, but I don't need it now and don't trust the vendor.

I don't think certified mail is necessary. I had couple of problems several years ago. My bank agreed and I got chargebacks. This month, for the first time since then, I wrote to my bank about another charge I considered fraudulent. I've gotten a chargeback. It's a powerful weapon because the offending company must pay a big penalty to the CC company. Now another problem in the same month? These things must come in clusters.

This is the first problem I've had with a small, unknown company. I think it's the big companies who have the MBAs who see how much they can improve the bottom line by bilking CC customers. Most customers won't complain. If the other shoe falls and chargebacks spoil the bottom line, those MBAs expect to be long gone.
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This is true.

Credit Card company

So, it was OK leaving the factory.

Yes, that is the way UPS handles things.

Above you said it showed that QC tested it. Why do you insist on blaming the factory when in fact they did test it?

OK, the guy is trying to make things right.

Some confusion here. Just refuse the package.

You said you already bought one local. It is just your non-professional opinion that the seller is wrong, but evidence you posted points to the contrary. Send it back, refuse it, get a credit and move on with life. You were wrong, IMO to accuse the company of malpractice.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

That's what the vendor says, but I don't see how the damage could have occurred subsequently in the foam package. Heat marks prove only that it was cycled once, which would not necessarily have shown cracking. Now that the vendor has sent me an ignitor that I have five times asked him not to send, I mistrust him. I think the factory tested it properly and discarded it.
Anyway, it's certainly not glass as the vendor said.

If the vendor was honest, the manufacturer had failed to catch these cracks. As I said, repeatedly cycling an ignitor would cause any cracks to grow and become evident by monitoring current. If the vendor was honest, it seemed the manufacturer hadn't been so thorough.

By sending me something I had told him five times I didn't want?

Confusion?
What's your point?

Should I rely on the opinion of a professional who says a DMM will wreck a semiconductor or skin oil will wreck an HSI?
If the manufacturer said these ignitors often shattered when double boxed and well padded, that would be significant. If the manufacturer said his QC was ineffectual, that would be significant. If UPS said very few of this vendor's ignitor customers had problems, that would be significant.

What evidence did I post that says UPS broke it?
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Sawney Beane wrote:

Contact the credit card company - tell them you suspect fraud. Same with UPS. Be aware if you go into laborious detail you will probably be considered a crank. Ultimately you should have learned that you don't gamble on important things like a heated house to save a few bucks. There are plenty of other places to save money that don't have the consequences.
R
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<deleting a bunch whining and sniveling>
Trying to be a cheapskate and buy second-hand shit when you should have gotten it locally (and maybe paid a couple bucks more).
Face it: You fucked up. Pay the money to get the right part from a repuable company and then shut the fuck up.
Lesson learned, tight ass.....
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Did you mean reputable?
It WAS a reputable company! I mean, he DID find it on the internet, and the internet is ALWAYS right.......
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Sawney Beane wrote:

UPS should have been yoru hint. Its not yoru problem its the sellers problem. Call the credit card company and ask the procedure to deal with not paying the seller. Do what they say. Call seller and tell him to kiss yoru ass.
why can't I type 'your'???
--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert
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If you suspect fraud, write to: 1. Your State's Attorney general. 2. The dispute department of your credit card company.
Document what you just told us. Provide details (times, dates, names of who you spoke to, copies of orders, etc.)
Say in the letter to your ccard company (copy the vendor & the AG) "The vendor has failed to fulfill his side of the purchase contract (document this)" "I have made a good faith effort to resolve the issue with the vendor (document this)" "The vendor has failed to act in good faith (document this)" "Therefore, I dispute charges on date [xxx] from vendor [xxx] in the amount of [xxx]"
Sign and date. Use certified mail if you want a record of it, but you don't need to.
If these things are true and you have documentation to back them up, you should have no problem. Assuming that you acted within your ccard company's time window.
Typically ccard company says "OK, you said he ripped you off; we believe you; here's the money back and we won't pay him. Hope you didn't lie, because then you committed fraud. We're not involved; just doing what you told us to do."
Within the time limit, it's no risk to the ccard company because they haven't paid him yet.
Did you use paypal? Pay by check? Very little recourse here, and now you know WHY the vendor won't take a ccard!
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

Also mail fraud is a federal offence in the US.
--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert
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CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert wrote:

That's *mail* fraud. OP specified UPS.
Cornell's got a convenient copy of the code (Title 39) at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode39/usc_sup_01_39.html
or you could download it from the house http://uscode.house.gov/download/download.shtml
Understanding and applying it, however, is another story. I understand people go to special schools just for that, and make entire careers of it.
Strange.
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There's no evidence in what you wrote that somebody sent you a known bad part. You're making an awful lot of assumptions.
However, it is up to the shipper to make any damage claims with UPS.
Sawney Beane wrote:

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In my business I ship and receive. The UPS customer is the shipper, the receiver is the consignee. Therefore UPS doesn't have much interest in talking to the person receiving the package.
Bob

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Until November 29, I assumed he had not known the part was bad. I thought it was wrong to blame UPS and wondered why he insisted that his visual inspection proved it had been good. As Terry documented above, a visual inspection means nothing. If he'd made the recommended electrical check, he would have known it was cracked.
Then he shipped me another ignitor in spite of my telling him repeatedly that I didn't want or need it. November 23, when I said the first one was broken, his wife immediately said they were sending another. I emailed her and talked to her on the phone, asking her not to send it because I knew where to get one locally. She agreed and none was sent.
Six days later, at 5:45 AM November 29, without my requesting one, he emailed me to say he was sending one. When I read it at 1:30, I immediately replied asking him not to send any. At 4:30 UPS sent me a message that he had told them to pick up my package. When I read it at 6:30, I phoned and left a message identifying myself and asking them please not to send it. At 8:30 UPS picked it up.
To call that a mixup stretches my credibility a long way. If it were an honest mistake, wouldn't he have emailed me in the three days since?
His shipments include a paper with the UPS phone number telling customers it's up to them to contact UPS and claim damages. He leads the receiver to expect payment from UPS. Is it a fact that a claim by the receiver will result in a payment to the shipper? Do you believe that all this time he has been ignorant of this?
Mike Berger wrote:

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On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 01:21:36 -0500, Sawney Beane
Sawney, Here is what to do if he keeps sending you parts and charging for it. Report you credit card lost to the credit card company. This is the only way to get it hot listed, plus no one won't be able to get your new number.
If you say your card is compromised, they could still get your new number. If it is a local bank that you have your credit card with. You might want to report that merchant for fraudulent activity. They will close his\\her merchants account down.
Greg Ro
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The problem with Sawney's theory that this "mom and pop" internet vendor is running a scam is this. UPS is not stupid. How many claims for shipping damage do you think UPS will pay for one shipper before they either refuse further shipments or call the cops for fraud? Sure, a vendor could get away with it once in awhile, but it's kind of hard to believe they could do it enough to make it worthwhile.
What to do is obvious. It's up to the shipper to pursue the claim with UPS. Send them an email telling them that. And notify the credit card company that you are disputing the unauthorized charge for the second item, as well as a refund for the first legitimate transaction because the item was returned.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Suppose he normally buys them for $24 and sells them for $30. Suppose he sells five a week, among 150 packages of various items, each with a $6 markup. That's $900 a week for pay and overhead. It's $30 from this item and $870 from the 145 other packages.
Suppose somebody at the Norton factory will sell him 50 QC rejects with hairline cracks for $2 apiece. Suppose he has a sale at $26. Online shoppers choose him and sales rise to 10 a day. Now the markup is 10 x 24 x 5 or $1200 per week for that one item. $1170 of it is an increase in his profit.
If the customer thinks it's not the vendor's fault because it was inspected and well packed, each customer immediately orders a replacement. This time a good one is sent. That's 50 a week at $6 markup adding another $300. In one week the dealer's profit increases $1470 from selling 50 rejects.
He shipped 245 packages, of which 50 contained rejects. So well packaged, perhaps 49 arrive in one piece. Nothing on his website said they were fragile, and the warning note was tucked out of sight. The only thing that alerted me was the unexpected FRAGILE stickers on the package. If it breaks during installation or in use, the customer will probably blame himself. After all, the warning said the absence of visible breaks was supposed to prove there was nothing wrong.
Out of the 50, suppose 3 call UPS. That's about 1% of the volume the vender shipped that week. The vender increased his profit by $1470, but will UPS investigate?

The day I received the defective item, I told the vendor I could buy one locally and I notified UPS. The vendor later asked if I'd filed a claim. I said yes, but he didn't offer a refund.
So far he has not charged my card for the replacement I had asked him repeatedly not to send. I suppose UPS has paid him for my claim, and he finds it more profitable to send me something I don't want than to refund my payment.
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That is an awful lot of "supposes" on your part. You'd make a better fiction writher than heater service tech. you should be careful that none of your fantasies become a libel situation. Norton has lots of money for lawyers
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